# A possible solution to the recent uprising. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 24, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937 "2014-07-24T14:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/1 "2014-07-24T14:41:14Z")
It seems to me that most of the recent kerfluffles stem from one thing: the circular policies of SDMB moderation. If you have a problem with a mod decision, take it to ATMB. But in doing so, you can’t talk about the posters that precipitated the decision. That has to go to the pit, where you can’t talk about mod decisions. It’s a catch 22. As the rules stand now, it is simply impossible to talk about mod decisions. So here’s my solution: Open up a sticky, which will need to go in The Pit, where both criticism of a post and mod decisions are allowed. The idea has the potential to confine all the bullshit into one single place, while still allowing grievances to be aired in the way that, frankly, sometimes they _need_ to be. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/2 "2014-07-24T14:46:58Z")
Your mistake is in thinking they view the circularity as a bug, when in reality, it’s their proudest feature. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/3 "2014-07-24T14:59:50Z")
We could just do all this during Festivus. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/4 "2014-07-24T15:02:18Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Your mistake is in thinking they view the circularity as a bug, when in reality, it’s their proudest feature. If detente is something you want, then we are going to need both sides. This solution isn’t perfect for either side, but it _is_ workable. There is a reason why what we have now doesn’t work, but there is _also_ a reason why the policy from the ancient days of calling out a moderator in a single pit thread didn’t work either. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/5 "2014-07-24T15:03:12Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > We could just do all this during Festivus. Yep. During the Airing of the Grievances. _ **I gotta a lot of problems with you people!!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/6 "2014-07-24T15:10:05Z")
I do see one issue with this idea - there’s no real way for people uninvolved with the brouhaha to know that something’s happened. I first knew something was going on here from idly browsing ATMB, something I don’t do often. If the idea is that it’s _all_ going to get put in this one single thread, with unchanging title, the only way I or someone else who wasn’t involved is going to know is by checking that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/7 "2014-07-24T15:17:27Z")
My suggestion, a “tie goes to runner” clause with respect to moderating. If something can be interpreted 2 ways, the default interpretation is in favor of the poster. IE, there was no insult (violation) intended. Example, “Fucking Brilliant” can be viewed as; A. A reflection on a noteworthy/entertaining post. B. An insult, etc. In this case, IMHO, it’s option A as it neither agrees with the subject or endorses it. It merely recognizes a noteworthy and entertaining contribution. Sure one or two minor infractions might get a pass by under this plan, but in the long run, this may help avoid what the board has gone through in the last few days. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/8 "2014-07-24T15:19:50Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > If detente is something you want, then we are going to need both sides. This solution isn’t perfect for either side, but it _is_ workable. There is a reason why what we have now doesn’t work, but there is _also_ a reason why the policy from the ancient days of calling out a moderator in a single pit thread didn’t work either. It’s not a matter of what I want. You’re trying to frame this as a negotiation but it’s not. There is no reason for the moderating staff to change its attitude because dopers don’t care enough to make them want to change. This happens every single time. People get mad and make a couple of threads in ATMB, initially Dex or Ed gets upset and a bunch of people get warned, then they apologize and everyone falls over themselves to congratulate the mods on their leniency and understanding and the end result is that nothing ever changes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/9 "2014-07-24T15:22:59Z")
Not going to happen. I think ATMB actually does the job we need it to do, which is discussing modding and the rules. Sometimes it’s tricky to discuss potential rulebreaking without going after other posters, but it’s done often enough. The problem here is that some posters want ATMB to serve some other purposes- specifically jerking the mods around or beating up on posters they don’t like. We don’t need ATMB do serve that purpose, so they’re going to remain unsatisfied. But that doesn’t mean we have to change the way the forum works. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/10 "2014-07-24T15:37:14Z")
I don’t think that’s true Marley. As pointed out in other threads, there are areas where a poster wants to post something that doesn’t fit in either ATMB or the PIT. And creative efforts to make it fit into one or the other result in warnings. Example, where would you post a thread accusing a moderator of being biased? If you posted it in ATMB, it’s an insult, If you posted it in the pit, it’s bashing moderator action. Your last post _Sometimes it’s tricky to discuss potential rulebreaking without going after other posters,_ (quoting Marley in part) makes it seem as if you get a pass for creativity. Not all of us are that creative. So, we’re stuck with without a forum to raise our concerns in. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/11 "2014-07-24T15:39:32Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > It’s not a matter of what I want. You’re trying to frame this as a negotiation but it’s not. There is no reason for the moderating staff to change its attitude because dopers don’t care enough to make them want to change. This happens every single time. > [@Marley23](#): > > Not going to happen. I think ATMB actually does the job we need it to do, which is discussing modding and the rules. Sometimes it’s tricky to discuss potential rulebreaking without going after other posters, but it’s done often enough. The problem here is that some posters want ATMB to serve some other purposes- specifically jerking the mods around or beating up on posters they don’t like. _groan_. If neither side can see the other, then this as useless as trying to achieve peace in the Middle East. Both sides are convinced that the other side is out to get them. Both sides are assholes, and I don’t care if I get warned for that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/12 "2014-07-24T15:42:18Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > And creative efforts to make it fit into one or the other result in warnings. Creativity wasn’t the issue in the thread that got closed yesterday. You can “creatively” Pit whoever you like. The problem was the complaints about moderation, which don’t go in the Pit. > [@](#): > > Example, where would you post a thread accusing a moderator of being biased? If you posted it in ATMB, it’s an insult, If you posted it in the pit, it’s bashing moderator action. ATMB. That’s easy and I had my share of those threads while I modded GD. It’s not insulting to say a mod is biased, although you can do it in an insulting way and people sometimes do that. > [@](#): > > Your last post _Sometimes it’s tricky to discuss potential rulebreaking without going after other posters,_ (quoting Marley in part) makes it seem as if you get a pass for creativity. You get a pass if you ask questions without attacking another poster. That’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. This does get complicated sometimes because it’s inherently difficult to ask why a particular post wasn’t considered jerkish or trolling without suggesting the poster is a jerk or a troll. But we can usually manage that, and putting a thread in the Pit won’t make it easier. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/13 "2014-07-24T15:46:33Z")
Then please answer a simple question. Assume I wanted to post regarding **Mrs Bunny** ( a SDMB moderator) for being biased with respect to moderating towards her husband **Mr Bunny** (A SDMB member) when moderating. Where would I post a thread that accused her of being biased? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/14 "2014-07-24T15:47:13Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > _groan_. If neither side can see the other, then this as useless as trying to achieve peace in the Middle East. Although the stakes are a wee bit lower. > [@](#): > > Both sides are convinced that the other side is out to get them. I don’t think that’s true at all. If I did, I wouldn’t bother modding or hanging around here. I do think there are a handful of posters who misbehave in this forum, and that’s pretty much the extent of it. > [@](#): > > Both sides are assholes, and I don’t care if I get warned for that. Good. Warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/15 "2014-07-24T15:53:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Then please answer a simple question. > > Assume I wanted to post regarding **Mrs Bunny** ( a SDMB moderator) for being biased with respect to moderating towards her husband **Mr Bunny** (A SDMB member) when moderating. > > Where would I post a thread that accused her of being biased? ATMB, because it’s about moderating. I’m not sure why a fictional example is supposed to illuminate the problem, but the forum descriptions of ATMB and the Pit both make it clear it goes here. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/16 "2014-07-24T15:54:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Good. Warning issued. Accepted, but you have to see my point here. I politely proposed a solution, and then both sides started firing their partisan guns. It’s frustrating when ideas are shot down out of hand merely because of fear of the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/17 "2014-07-24T15:58:17Z")
I could have sworn I got an “Almost a warning” for doing just that in the thread Tuba closed. But thanks for clarifying the matter. I’ll drop the issue now. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/18 "2014-07-24T15:58:44Z")
In all fairness, this way is much funnier. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/19 "2014-07-24T16:01:19Z")
I’m not afraid, just disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/20 "2014-07-24T16:14:48Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Accepted, but you have to see my point here. I politely proposed a solution, and then both sides started firing their partisan guns. It’s frustrating when ideas are shot down out of hand merely because of fear of the other side. The issue isn’t fear. The issue is that it’s not needed and wouldn’t help, despite your good intentions. But also true that this issue was decided five years ago and isn’t going to get re-litigated now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937.md?page=2)