# A possible solution to the recent uprising. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 24, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937 "2014-07-24T14:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/141 "2014-07-28T02:36:29Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Truly, you’ve been acting like a spoiled child as a moderator these past few weeks. And I’m not even all that interested in this board’s moderation. Friendly reminder: personal insults are NOT permitted in this forum. Please don’t do it again. The title of this thread is “A possible solution to the recent uprising.” Comments about the long-ago days when the Pit was used for complaints about moderators were a tangent which has now gone on long enough. The line between “interesting tangent” and “irrelevant hijack” is often a thin one, let’s please stay on this side of it. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/142 "2014-07-28T03:27:11Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The title of this thread is “A possible solution to the recent uprising.” Comments about the long-ago days when the Pit was used for complaints about moderators were a tangent which has now gone on long enough. The line between “interesting tangent” and “irrelevant hijack” is often a thin one, let’s please stay on this side of it. Do you completely lack self-awareness? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/143 "2014-07-28T03:33:29Z")
Yeah, pretty hard to ignore the long-necked ungulate in the room. Well, I’ve said all I’m going to say on the subject. Very disappointed in you, **Dex**. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/144 "2014-07-28T03:34:48Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Friendly reminder: personal insults are NOT permitted in this forum. Please don’t do it again. > > The title of this thread is “A possible solution to the recent uprising.” Comments about the long-ago days when the Pit was used for complaints about moderators were a tangent which has now gone on long enough. The line between “interesting tangent” and “irrelevant hijack” is often a thin one, let’s please stay on this side of it. What? If the tangent is even remotely interesting, it is because you threw out an accusation for everyone to see but refuse to back up. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/145 "2014-07-28T03:39:23Z")
C’mon, Dex. You’re better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/146 "2014-07-28T03:43:23Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > …a tangent which has now gone on long enough. The line between “interesting tangent” and “irrelevant hijack” is often a thin one, Well, now _I’m_ insulted! Harumph! [crosses that thin line, stomps out of thread] ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/147 "2014-07-28T05:49:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I’m uncomfortable with that ruling because here a warning is a howitzer response to a peashooter event. **armedmonkey** made what he thought was a reasonable solution to a vexing problem, expressed his disappointment that both sides have rejected it out of hand, and you, in what I see as a moment of pique, hauled out the big gun to slap him down. That’s a complete misreading of what happened. **armedmonkey** made a suggestion, it got shot down by posters and mods, and he called everyone who disagreed with him “assholes”, knowing full well that you don’t insult people outside the Pit. If that doesn’t call for a warning for insults, what would? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/148 "2014-07-28T05:53:42Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > It’s frustrating when ideas are shot down out of hand merely because of fear of the other side. Where are you getting this “fear” idea from? It got shot down because it was a silly idea, and won’t work, as several other posters have said. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/149 "2014-07-28T05:58:06Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Friendly reminder: personal insults are NOT permitted in this forum. Please don’t do it again. My apologies. I’ll bow out. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/150 "2014-07-28T06:04:03Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Alright, I said I was going to bow out, and I will, but I want to say one more thing. The fact that posters ignore stickies is the _beauty_ and the intent of the idea. The damn thing could be a hundred pages long, but nobody actually reads it. Then how would it act as a release valve? If someone full of righteous indignation makes a long post to the sticky and is promptly ignored by everyone, what good will it serve? If they’re ignored, they’ll re-post it somewhere else, in the Pit or ATMB, to get a discussion of their grievance going. A sticky that no-one reads is useless. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/151 "2014-07-28T06:14:53Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > Yes, please. I was here then and the Pit was actually fun! (not that it can’t be now, but it’s def. different…) Of course, I was never foolish enough to try to be a mod, either.🙂 Fun is in the eye of the beholder. I never thought the Pit was fun back then. In fact, I avoided it, for much the same reasons as **Dex** mentioned up thread. It was a nasty place. I never understood why the initial decision had been made that people could complain about moderators’ actions in foul, cruel language. I was very pleased when the rules were changed in 2009, and fully supported it. I agree with those up thread who don’t want to go back to that approach, which is sort if what the OP seems to be suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/152 "2014-07-28T06:33:41Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > My apologies. I’ll bow out. You forgot the magic framing. “Dex’s posts win the most spoiled child prize of the day.” ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/153 "2014-07-28T06:38:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Then how would it act as a release valve? If someone full of righteous indignation makes a long post to the sticky and is promptly ignored by everyone, what good will it serve? If they’re ignored, they’ll re-post it somewhere else, in the Pit or ATMB, to get a discussion of their grievance going. A sticky that no-one reads is useless. We have five threads over a ridiculously minor occurrence. A mod posted a note which may have shown bias. That’s it. So you have to ask yourself, why did _that_ bubble over into _this_? Five threads of this is bullshit. What’s gone wrong? When there is an uprising like this, it might be time to re-examine some policies and procedures, so to speak. I put forth an idea, and believe me, I welcome others. The one and only thing I want people to admit is that there is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/154 "2014-07-28T08:34:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Fun is in the eye of the beholder. I never thought the Pit was fun back then. In fact, I avoided it, for much the same reasons as **Dex** mentioned up thread. It was a nasty place. I never understood why the initial decision had been made that people could complain about moderators’ actions in foul, cruel language. I was very pleased when the rules were changed in 2009, and fully supported it. I agree with those up thread who don’t want to go back to that approach, which is sort if what the OP seems to be suggesting. Do you have any examples? The ten threads provided by Measure4Measure show no such thing. They would all be allowed in the ATMB of today. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/155 "2014-07-28T09:41:12Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Do you have any examples? The ten threads provided by Measure4Measure show no such thing. They would all be allowed in the ATMB of today. I do have some examples of Pit posts that I don’t think would be allowed in ATMB today. But I’m under the impression that this tangent is verging on a hijack. Could I get some guidance on where it might be appropriate to answer this question? I’m willing to start a thread if I know where to start it. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/156 "2014-07-28T11:06:30Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I do have some examples of Pit posts that I don’t think would be allowed in ATMB today. But I’m under the impression that this tangent is verging on a hijack. > > Could I get some guidance on where it might be appropriate to answer this question? I’m willing to start a thread if I know where to start it. Although people seem to think that _I_ started this tangent/hijack, I just responded to an ex-mod mentioning how wonderful the Olden Days were, and I’m 180 from that opinion. This thread was about an idea offered by a poster, rejected by most, and can probably be closed. I don’t see why anyone would want to get involved in an analysis of the old Pit, but if you really, really do: - If you want discussion of mod actions (or lack of actions) in the Pit, then ATMB and keep it polite - If you want just a comparison of the Olden Days and today, then MPSIMS and keep it polite - If you want to be able to ream people out, free-form, then the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/157 "2014-07-28T11:23:47Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Although people seem to think that _I_ started this tangent/hijack, I just responded to an ex-mod mentioning how wonderful the Olden Days were, This is demonstrably untrue, and you are blatantly misrepresenting Giraffe’s argument. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/158 "2014-07-28T11:37:28Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Although people seem to think that _I_ started this tangent/hijack, I just responded to an ex-mod mentioning how wonderful the Olden Days were, and I’m 180 from that opinion. So . . . you treated someone differently because they used to be a mod?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/159 "2014-07-28T14:16:54Z")
Enough. Too much of this has been about the past and therefore is of no consequence. I’ve stayed out of this thread because I don’t really care - and I was here, recall - about the past in these terms. It doesn’t matter and it never will matter. I’ll leave this thread open for the moment, but if it continues in the vein of ‘the past was better, different ad nauseum’ I’m closing it and telling you all to go outside and see the sun and such. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937/160 "2014-07-28T16:37:19Z")
Apologies, only just saw that this was a reply to my post. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Really? Saying that Giraffe had something to do with the brouhaha a few years ago would get you a warning? Again, Dex wasn’t alleging full responsibility, only partial. Frankly I find the opposite contention more insulting to Giraffe’s character. I mean you can’t be saying that he takes absolutely no managerial responsibility for what happened when he was moderator. As I said upthread, that would be weaseling and Giraffe isn’t a weasel. Just for reminder’s sake, here’s the part of **Dex’s** post in question. > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Sorry, **Giraffe** , I know you loved the free-for-all days because you never had to do any moderating. Let’s face it, YOU were one of the reasons those days came to an abrupt end. And to reiterate, all I’m looking for here is some clarification as to why **Dex’s** post was acceptable. It is unfortunate that he or other mods haven’t yet addressed this point, and I hope that with two mods effectively saying “This thread is pretty much done” that doesn’t mean there will be no answer. How is that post insulting? I think there’s a difference to be drawn between “ **Giraffe** prefers hands-off moderating, and so he takes a lassiez-faire approach to it” and “I know you loved the free-for-all days because you never had to do any moderating”. One suggests a former mod preferred a free hand; the other suggests he didn’t want to do his job. As you note, **Dex** lays the responsibility for the end of those days partially at **Giraffe** ’s feet - not fully, certainly. But partial blame seems “enough” for mod action if it had been said by another poster, given that we’ve seen mod action based on impolite questioning of former mods’ behaviour around this whole matter. To call back to\*\* Dex\*\*'s own instructions for how a poster might reasonably question mod actions; > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > So, if you have specific accusations about moderator behavior (“You let X get away with this but warned me”) post it in ATMB. If you have general statements about a person (“She’s an all-purpose jerk over an extended period of time”) take it to the Pit. > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > > > > > I really, really don’t see this as a problem with policy. In ATMB, you certainly CAN talk about the person who caused the problem – but you need to be polite and respectful, not hurtful and insulting. > > > > You can’t if he’s a former mod. > > You CAN as long as you’re polite and reasonable about it. **Dex** did not have a specific accusation about moderator behaviour. He had a general one - by his words, Pit-worthy, not ATMB-worthy. He wasn’t polite and reasonable; he seemingly accused **Giraffe** of shirking, and laid partial blame for the changes at his feet. I’d argue there’s an unpleasant tone to it, too, but that’s much more just opinion. You say that **Giraffe** owns some part of the resulting changing because, hey, he was a moderator, too. That’s a fair point, and if\*\* Dex\*\* had expressed the thought more reasonably not something I’d necessarily have cared about. But look at how it’s written; it’s not an inclusive, we’re-all-moderators-so-we-share-management-decisions point. It’s exclusive. YOU are one of the reasons. That doesn’t read to me as “…because we all, as mods, take responsiblity for our decisions.” It reads to me, especially in conjunction with the rest of the post, as “…because you didn’t do your job”. I think the problem here as I see it, to try and summarise it, is that **Dex** effectively called out another, former moderator as being bad at it, in a manner and style which even he himself has said is unreasonable for ATMB. I don’t think it’s reaching, when tempers have flared in this thread and the others, to imagine that a mod seeing such a post by a random poster could have issued some kind of note or warning, if only to stop it before the thread really does have to be closed. I think the mod reaction now, to issue notes that bringing up the past in that way is unreasonable and pointless and should be stopped, seems to miss that **Dex** ’s post seems to have inflamed the fire, though I’m honestly not sure if I can point that out. Perhaps I’m wrong, and there’s a reasonable explanation for all this. But I don’t know, and it seems contradictory to me, so I’m just asking - politely and reasonably, I hope - for an explanation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-possible-solution-to-the-recent-uprising/693937.md?page=9)