# A problem with "realistic" games? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 27, 2017, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349 "2017-04-27T10:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/21 "2017-04-28T22:20:33Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The Elder Scrolls games are like that. Everything can be picked up and most of it is worthless. _TES_ games tend to be so open that the pick-up-everything model gives rise to emergent gameplay. If you have an open, highly interactable world, some types of players will make their own fun–a sandbox game on top of whatever the game was meant to be. I’ve seen people happily collecting worthless objects and carefully arranging them to make artistic displays, for example. _Titan Quest_ doesn’t have the physics to support that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/22 "2017-04-28T22:34:57Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > _Titan Quest_ doesn’t have the physics to support that, though. Yeah, arguably TES lends itself to immersion (and silly concepts). TQ just floods your screen with useless crap. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/23 "2017-04-29T00:00:36Z")
You know, there’s been dozens of these games now, and some of them have full towns with characters you can go to. In none of them can you go to the town beggars or other unemployed - or certain gangster minion characters you may be forced to gun down later - and offer them a job as loot vacuum. Basically, their role would be to follow behind you and pick up everything you found but didn’t pick up and haul it back to town. Periodically, there would be a way to review everything, and ideally some heavy filtering so you just get a bird’s eye view of all that garbage, and can have it sold off for caps or gold or whatever in one click. You pay the loot mules a percentage. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/24 "2017-04-29T01:02:17Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > In none of them can you go to the town beggars or other unemployed - or certain gangster minion characters you may be forced to gun down later - and offer them a job as loot vacuum… “I am sworn to carry your burdens, my Thane :rolleyes:” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/25 "2017-04-29T01:12:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You don’t make the combination the answer to a riddle that you write right on the door. \*\*That \*\*stupidity I allow however. It’s grandfathered. \* Ennyn Durin Aran Moria. Pedo Mellon a Minno. Im Narvi hain echant. Celebrimbor o Eregion teithant i thiw hin 😉 \* ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/26 "2017-04-29T01:15:53Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > You know, there’s been dozens of these games now, and some of them have full towns with characters you can go to. > > In none of them can you go to the town beggars or other unemployed - or certain gangster minion characters you may be forced to gun down later - and offer them a job as loot vacuum. Basically, their role would be to follow behind you and pick up everything you found but didn’t pick up and haul it back to town. Periodically, there would be a way to review everything, and ideally some heavy filtering so you just get a bird’s eye view of all that garbage, and can have it sold off for caps or gold or whatever in one click. You pay the loot mules a percentage. Joke aside, that is in one game I know of at least : Torchlight II. You have a dog following your character around that you can pack with loot, then send back to town where it will dutifully sell it on your behalf for a slight percentage on the total sale. Presumably to cover milkbone expenses, wear & tear on the chewtoys and so on. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/27 "2017-04-29T01:38:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “I am sworn to carry your burdens, my Thane :rolleyes:” 😉 That didn’t work. It wasn’t automatic, Lydia wouldn’t make as many trips as it took to clear all the junk off the dungeon floor, and merchants would have finite daily gold - Lydia wouldn’t automatically sell over a period of days to overcome that or something. Essentially, being able to dump crap on your companions only added to the number of clicks needed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/28 "2017-04-29T01:40:59Z")
**Kobal2** , that wasn’t a security puzzle. That was just a door that they deliberately left unlocked so as to be hospitable. Presumably the only reason they had a door at all was to keep out the rain, wolves, giant tentacle monsters, and the like. It’s not their fault that, an Age later, people had forgotten about the customs of hospitality. ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/29 "2017-04-29T02:33:17Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Joke aside, that is in one game I know of at least : Torchlight II. You have a dog following your character around that you can pack with loot, then send back to town where it will dutifully sell it on your behalf for a slight percentage on the total sale. Presumably to cover milkbone expenses, wear & tear on the chewtoys and so on. There was also a Diablo-like Microsoft game, Dungeon Seige (and 2 and III) that I vaguely recall, wherein I believe you could have literal mules carry a bunch of your loot. It’s been a long time, but I think the mules and/or your companions would also hoover up any loot within a certain radius of their sprites. And then there was a spell that you could cast, in at least one of those games, that would turn your extra weapons and armor into gold, at a certain fraction of what you’d get for schlepping the stuff to the merchant and selling it. But we’re getting pretty far from “realistic” with these games. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/30 "2017-04-29T11:04:29Z")
I should say that Rise of the Tomb Raider is the first modern platformer I’ve played other than Portal. I’ve just started playing through the Uncharted games and see similar issues of platforming just for the sake of platforming. I guess I will learn to accept it. Otherwise I enjoy this style of game. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/31 "2017-04-29T15:25:50Z")
I recently played all 4 Uncharted games for the first time followed by Rise of the Tomb Raider, and I had the same thought repeatedly. You scale a cliff face, leap from rock handhold to rock handhold using nothing but your arms, climb a rope, swing across a chasm on a rope, dash across a bridge that collapses behind you, grab the last plank with one hand at the last possible instant before plunging to certain death, climb back up, swing across another chasm, scale another cliff face to a small rock outcropping which there’s no other way to reach… and there are a couple of enemy guards, just standing there casually shooting the breeze, as though it were just another day at the office. How the heck did THEY get up there? And what do they do for their lunch break? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/32 "2017-04-29T16:11:13Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > You scale a cliff face, leap from rock handhold to rock handhold using nothing but your arms, climb a rope, swing across a chasm on a rope, dash across a bridge that collapses behind you, grab the last plank with one hand at the last possible instant before plunging to certain death, climb back up, swing across another chasm, scale another cliff face to a small rock outcropping which there’s no other way to reach… And why is there always \*exactly \*one way through? Why don’t you get stuck somewhere or have the bridge collapse every time before you can leap off it? It’s almost as if reality itself is being manipulated to ensure your success… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/33 "2017-04-29T17:16:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Kobal2** , that wasn’t a security puzzle. That was just a door that they deliberately left unlocked so as to be hospitable. Not really though. It also locks out people who can’t read Sindarin, people who don’t know that ithildin runes only appear by the moonlight, people who don’t grok the riddle… It’s maybe not ultra-high security, but it’s not a fuzzy welcome mat with a funny slogan on it either. Kinda like a Windows password 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/34 "2017-04-30T03:56:01Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > One expedient answer to this is to make the story self-generate from what happens in the game. > > This is what RimWorld tries to do. All kinds of things can happen to your little pawns, and it tries to make you feel for them, and sometimes succeeds. But there’s no ham handed story forced on you - what happens is determined by your actions as a player + the RNG + the limitations of the game. You are to an extent able to shape outcomes - you’re not forced to confront that bear without a gun, like mentioned above, because the game models enemies dropping weapons, and you can pick those weapons up. If the enemies have a weapon, they will drop it, unless there is a specific reason they won’t. (like it’s a cybernetic weapon or you filling them full of lead destroyed it) > > Rimworld is an experimental game by 1 guy, so it’s not got the production values of Tomb Raider, but it does show that solutions to this problem are possible. Is there any kind of demo available? It sounds like it might be interesting, but I just can’t bring my self to drop 30 bucks on a game that’s still in alpha. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/35 "2017-04-30T03:59:46Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Is there any kind of demo available? It sounds like it might be interesting, but I just can’t bring my self to drop 30 bucks on a game that’s still in alpha. The common way to approach this these days is either : a. Watch other people play Rimworld on youtube. It’s a popular game, so there are probably more videos up than you could view in a lifetime. b. Pirate the game. If you like it, buy it. Give yourself an unlimited time demo. It has minimal DRM since it came from an indie dev. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/36 "2017-04-30T04:23:53Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > The common way to approach this these days is either : > > a. Watch other people play Rimworld on youtube. It’s a popular game, so there are probably more videos up than you could view in a lifetime. > > b. Pirate the game. If you like it, buy it. Give yourself an unlimited time demo. It has minimal DRM since it came from an indie dev. Well, A doesn’t really answer my question and B is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/37 "2017-04-30T05:01:24Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Well, A doesn’t really answer my question and B is illegal. Ok, take option C, then. Pay $30 on steam, and play the game. If you hate it within the first 2 hours, ask for a refund. This is the modern and most accepted “demo” mechanic now. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/38 "2017-04-30T05:45:11Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > One expedient answer to this is to make the story self-generate from what happens in the game. > > This is what RimWorld tries to do. All kinds of things can happen to your little pawns, and it tries to make you feel for them, and sometimes succeeds. But there’s no ham handed story forced on you - what happens is determined by your actions as a player + the RNG + the limitations of the game. You are to an extent able to shape outcomes - you’re not forced to confront that bear without a gun, like mentioned above, because the game models enemies dropping weapons, and you can pick those weapons up. If the enemies have a weapon, they will drop it, unless there is a specific reason they won’t. (like it’s a cybernetic weapon or you filling them full of lead destroyed it) > > Rimworld is an experimental game by 1 guy, so it’s not got the production values of Tomb Raider, but it does show that solutions to this problem are possible. So, it’s like Dwarf Fortress with a less steep learning curve? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349/39 "2017-04-30T14:22:43Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > So, it’s like Dwarf Fortress with a less steep learning curve? And graphics, yeah. And an interface that uses the same keys for the same actions. It also has certain “drama generating” bits added in, like one of your colonists can turn out to be the long lost lover of a traveling band coming through your territory, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-problem-with-realistic-games/785349.md?page=1)