# A Prominent British Jew speaks the truth about Israel and Palestine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030 "2014-07-25T15:50:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/161 "2014-07-31T08:48:56Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t know where you stayed in the U.S., but I have rarely known the religions of my neighbors or co-workers in over 60 years. From time to time I will hear of a specific event that clues me in to their beliefs, but that has been rare. > > I am not making any claim that attitudes do not differ between the two countries; I am only pointing out that any sweeping generalizations about how “Americans” feel about such issues is going to be wrong for significant portions of the country and only right for specific, localized groups. I’m not from the UK so I won’t comment on that. As I Kiwi however I will say that the level of “Church” that I see in day to day life on these boards, and in politics is quite astonishing to me. And I rather suspect that your own beliefs are colouring what you see somewhat. Just as an example - I am currently 40, I couldn’t tell you the religion of any of New Zealand’s prime ministers since I started voting. Likewise - the only “religion” I can ever recall in any election campaign is the one party that stood specifically as a Christian Party (for example - I remember the controversy around what church who attends and who the reverend was in past American campaigns) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/162 "2014-07-31T08:57:02Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > How one for the mental illness that thinks there must be a good guy? Why can’t both be bad? Or both be good. I actually sympathize with both sides a and find the “a pox on both houses they’re both awful” self-serving, simplistic and intellectually lazy. Edit: the last sentence wasn’t meant to be an attack on you. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/163 "2014-07-31T08:57:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which rather re-enforces the point. Yes, that essentially the UK is not an overwhelmingly Christian country, whereas adherence to Christian religion, attendance at church and belief in the efficacy of prayer is considerably higher and is of greater valence in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/164 "2014-07-31T10:13:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which rather re-enforces the point. The point being that the UK is now in no sense ‘a Christian country’? Which it isn’t and has not been for a long time in any meaningful sense of the term. Immigration from areas that take Christianity seriously (Africa and Eastern Europe) may change this. And of course Muslims take their religion seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/165 "2014-07-31T11:25:46Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The point being that the UK is now in no sense ‘a Christian country’? > > Which it isn’t and has not been for a long time in any meaningful sense of the term. > > Immigration from areas that take Christianity seriously (Africa and Eastern Europe) may change this. And of course Muslims take their religion seriously. I think you possibly overstate the case. Britain is less overtly religious than the USA but is still largely Christian in culture. Most people have a grounding in Christian theology and culture- know the parables and episodes from the gospels, know many hymns, and live in a culture shaped by Christianity. But people worship little publicly and pray considerably less than Americans privately. They are also less public about beliefs they may have- especially Christian ones. I have a wide variety of Facebook friends in the USA and UK. Almost all the witnessing and calls for prayers emanate from my American friends; Brits rarely do that- when they do you are surprised by it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/166 "2014-07-31T12:08:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Britain should be more confident of its status as a Christian country.” - David Cameron Just imagine the uproar in the U.S. if an American president had said that. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/167 "2014-07-31T12:16:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Just imagine the uproar in the U.S. if an American president had said that. Legally of course the USA is not a Christian country. De Facto it is probably the most Christian country in the world! Whereas the UK is legally a Christian country but is one of the least Christian in the Western world. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/168 "2014-07-31T13:42:21Z")
[QUOTE=Pjen] Legally of course the USA is not a Christian country. De Facto it is probably the most Christian country in the world! [/QUOTE] You need to get out more if you think that the US is even in the top 10 of the ‘most Christian country in the world’. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/169 "2014-07-31T14:19:25Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You need to get out more if you think that the US is even in the top 10 of the ‘most Christian country in the world’. 😛 Suggest some with as much Christian allegiance and prominence in everyday life. Ireland and Italy have become mere shadows of their former religious states. France is positively anti-religion- far more so than mere separation of church and state. > **[Church attendance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance)** > > Church attendance is a central religious practice for many Christians; some Christian denominations require church attendance on the Lord's Day (Sunday). The Canon Law of the Catholic Church states, "on Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass". The Westminster Confession of Faith is held by the Reformed Churches and teaches first-day Sabbatarianism (Sunday Sabbatarianism) and the duty of church attendance on this day. Similarly, the Gener In ad... suggests that Ireland, Malta and Poland are the only ones with greater attendance at church than the USA. Poland is in rebound from years of the Catholic Church being highly restricted. Malta and Ireland have high attendance in the elderly and late middle aged, but are becoming more like the rest of Europe as the decades pass. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/170 "2014-07-31T16:01:03Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Legally of course the USA is not a Christian country. **De Facto it is probably the most Christian country in the world!** You think the USA is more Christian than Vatican City? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/171 "2014-07-31T17:15:52Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Suggest some with as much Christian allegiance and prominence in everyday life. Seriously, where the hell do you get this from?? I’ve lived in six of the states located in all regions of the country. Are the religious people? Sure. Did id dominated the live of many or most of the people I know. In no way did it. I’ve been in my current office for over four years (my longest stint in one place in my career). Of the 50 or so people in our office, I know the religion of exactly zero people there. I guess I can tell that some are Christian based on some Christmas discussions, but that’s about it. It doesn’t come up, and nobody cares. I suspect this was just a throwaway line for you and now you are stuck defending it. If that’s the case, I’d suggest you admit that and move on. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/172 "2014-07-31T17:22:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > (Actually, most “tolerance” is the result of apathy or indifference rather than an actual, active disposition to welcome those who are unlike us. Xenophobia is a human condition that affects Americans as easily as others.) Not sure how much I agree with this statement, but my first reaction is “so what?” At worst it’s a distinction without a difference. Do I think that many American seek out members of other religions to include them in their social circle? Nope. But one wiki definition of Religious toleration is: “when people allow other people to think about god(s) in ways that they do not think are true. They tolerate religious beliefs and practices which are different from their own beliefs or lack of beliefs.” So it doesn’t appear that religious tolerance must be active. More of a passive live and let life philosophy. Seems like that is what we have here and it works. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/173 "2014-07-31T18:53:19Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The point being that the UK is now in no sense ‘a Christian country’? No, the point being that people in the UK see to talk about their religion a bit more than **pjen** claims. Of course, I did only provide the one cite to back that up, but I’m just trying to hew to the rigorous standards of evidence pioneered by **pjen** in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/174 "2014-07-31T19:10:02Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The point being that the UK is now in no sense ‘a Christian country’? Muslims would disagree. Like I said, fish have a difficult time recognizing water. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/175 "2014-07-31T19:23:05Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You think the USA is more Christian than Vatican City? Silly. Hardly a “country”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/176 "2014-07-31T20:12:26Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Silly. Hardly a “country”. You’re unaware of the definition of _country_? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/177 "2014-07-31T21:34:34Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Legally of course the USA is not a Christian country. De Facto it is probably the most Christian country in the world! You need more than a mere exclamation point to drive this home. Perhaps more colored fonts. [Reality is different](http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/) than your stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/178 "2014-07-31T23:19:45Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Silly. Hardly a “country”. Vatican City is a country. Therefore you are weaseling your way out of your statement. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/179 "2014-08-01T02:14:00Z")
Sure, the U.S. is “more Christian” than Vatican City. How many denominations do they have? One! How many do we have? HUNDREDS! Baptists and Methodists and Presbyterians and on and on and on. Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Scientists. And Catholics too! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030/180 "2014-08-01T03:19:49Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Silly. Hardly a “country”. You really, REALLY need to study history and world geography before you spout your mouth off, dude. In fact, it’s not even the smallest nation. _smh_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-prominent-british-jew-speaks-the-truth-about-israel-and-palestine/694030.md?page=10)