# A public service: Names of Proposition 8 supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362 "2009-02-04T03:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/21 "2009-02-04T12:08:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Now, in the greater picture, I see this as a potential erosion of civility with people carrying on feuds over elections long after the votes have been counted, but I see no reason to oppose this on legal grounds. Thing is, this law is designed to hurt people and go on hurting people “long after the votes have been counted”. As long as this law exists there should be no civility. And after, no forgiveness; not for something so disgusting. Not for something that’s such an example of pure malice. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/22 "2009-02-04T12:11:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If you want to be anonymous, keep your support limited to the vote. Bingo. I believe the Supreme Court has ruled more than once that political contributions equal political speech and therefore protected as free speech. A notion the GOP likes. There’s nothing anonymous about political/free speech. To the OP however, “consequences” sounds a bit ominous. Shall we drag them out into the street and beat them? Burn their homes or business? Affix a scarlet “B” to their clothing? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/23 "2009-02-04T13:06:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Thing is, this law is designed to hurt people and go on hurting people “long after the votes have been counted”. As long as this law exists there should be no civility. And after, no forgiveness; not for something so disgusting. Not for something that’s such an example of pure malice. Cry havoc, and set loose the dogs of war, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/24 "2009-02-04T13:32:31Z")
> [@furt](#): > > “Here’s a list of people who have given money to support gay adoption. These people need to learn that handing children over to perverts has consequences.” > > “Here’s a list of people who have given money to support abortion rights. These people need to learn that murder has consequences.” > > “Here’s a list of people who have given money to oppose the President’s foreign policy. These people need to learn that treason has consequences.” > Still like the sound of that? Eh? People (mainly evangelical groups) boycott businesses that support abortion and gays all the time. I don’t agree with them, but I don’t really see any problem with them going ahead with their boycotts if they feel they must. > [@](#): > > The only issues I have heard is the publication of home addresses of donors. I have a few physician friends who were dismayed to find out that their home information was now in the public sphere. They did NOT want that to happen, as they deal with drug seekers on a regular basis. They have both now foresworn donations until they can find a way to keep their home address private. Glancing at the [CA SoS](http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Campaign/Committees/Detail.aspx?id=1302592&session=2007&view=received) page, I don’t think they publish (or possibly even collect) street addresses of individual donors, only zip codes. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/25 "2009-02-04T13:38:56Z")
I’ll say what I said in the other thread, which is that a dollar is NOT a vote. A dollar is the weapon that people who have an extra dollar wield to influence public policy more than people who don’t. If you are sufficiently passionate enough about a cause to donate money, then you should man the fuck up and own it. ---
**Author:** ![cards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cards)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/26 "2009-02-04T13:51:15Z")
At the federal level, doesn’t the FEC publish every political donor? Just because it is an issue at the state level, doesn’t the same logic apply, political donations are a public record? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/27 "2009-02-04T14:34:09Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > There’s nothing anonymous about political/free speech. Sayeth you, posting a political opinion under a pseudonym yourself. Unless your name actually is Batfish. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/28 "2009-02-04T15:06:21Z")
I live in California and voted no on 8. That said, I don’t like this. I don’t see it as much different than extortion. We should convince people that gay marriage is fine, and earn their votes, not demand it through threatening people’s livelihood. The “No on 8” people did a poor job. I live in San Francisco. Everywhere you looked there were signs and people handing out flyers. The Castro was filled with this. It was great to watch and we all got to feel great about ourselves, but it was preaching to the choir. Very few in San Francisco were voting yes. Drive 30 minutes outside of San Francisco, and it was a very different story. That’s where these guys needed to be to send a message that gay marriage is fine. I think this was a very winnable vote, and people on the fence, outside of the cities, are amenable to gay marriage if a reasonable discourse is maintained. But this is one of those things that makes me dislike my own side. I understand the anger, but I disagree with the method. I’m pro choice, but I don’t want my name on a list that will affect my career so I won’t be donating any money in that direction. Want me to be pro-life? Then convince me of your arguments. Threaten my livelihood and I’ll dig in my heels even more until we’re not even discussing the issue anymore, but entrenching myself based on a dislike of the methods. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/29 "2009-02-04T15:22:25Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I think that **Mr. Moto** was referring to Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison, who published the Federalist Papers under the pseudonym Publius. I was thinking the same, but that still isn’t relevent to what I said. There is also a [publius.org](http://publius.org) that let’s Michigan voters view their ballots. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/30 "2009-02-04T15:23:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > In case you haven’t noticed, \*everything \*has consequences. Not my rule, but the Universe’s. So to be clear: you’d have no problem if an anti-abortion group publicized the names of people who gave money to abortion-rights groups. And of course, the internet isn’t the only place you can do this. Billboards aren’t that expensive; depending on zoning laws, you can build your own on your property. So under the rubric of “everything have consequences,” I’d assume you’d have no problem with a pro-lifer in a small southern town putting up a billboard reading “the following five residents of this town have given money to kill babies.” Call me crazy, but that doesn’t sound like a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/31 "2009-02-04T15:49:52Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So to be clear: you’d have no problem if an anti-abortion group publicized the names of people who gave money to abortion-rights groups. For myself, no, but that would certainly fall under the “clear and present danger” free speech exceptions. On the other hand, I haven’t seen pro-gay gangs roaming the streets of Sacramento beating up Mormons (much less firebombing their churches). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/32 "2009-02-04T16:07:14Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > To the OP however, “consequences” sounds a bit ominous. Shall we drag them out into the street and beat them? Burn their homes or business? Affix a scarlet “B” to their clothing? The “ominous” connotation is yours, not mine; positive things also have consequences. I guess I should have added that the consequences should be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/33 "2009-02-04T16:11:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > On the other hand, I haven’t seen pro-gay gangs roaming the streets of Sacramento beating up Mormons (much less firebombing their churches). [Mormon church vandalized.](http://blog.techfun.org/pics/churchvandalism1.jpg) [Catholic church vandalized.](http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=6584961) [Man gets probation for punching elderly Prop 8 supporters.](http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11415631?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com) Now, I will readily admit that similar incidents abound on the other side - this is a heated topic. But it is the case that there is political vandalism and violence afoot in California right now. Now, with this the case, the risk of retaliation in the face of these tactics is very real - and it won’t be pretty if it happens. It might take the form of legislation to shield certain political donations from disclosure. It might lead to a hardening of positions on this topic, as noted above. But in any case, it might be extremely counterproductive to supporters of the gay marriage issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/34 "2009-02-04T16:20:31Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Cry havoc, and set loose the dogs of war, eh? Bears, more like. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/35 "2009-02-04T16:25:14Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I live in California and voted no on 8. > > That said, I don’t like this. I don’t see it as much different than extortion. We should convince people that gay marriage is fine, and earn their votes, not demand it through threatening people’s livelihood. > > The “No on 8” people did a poor job. I live in San Francisco. Everywhere you looked there were signs and people handing out flyers. The Castro was filled with this. It was great to watch and we all got to feel great about ourselves, but it was preaching to the choir. Very few in San Francisco were voting yes. Drive 30 minutes outside of San Francisco, and it was a very different story. That’s where these guys needed to be to send a message that gay marriage is fine. > > I think this was a very winnable vote, and people on the fence, outside of the cities, are amenable to gay marriage if a reasonable discourse is maintained. But this is one of those things that makes me dislike my own side. I understand the anger, but I disagree with the method. > > I’m pro choice, but I don’t want my name on a list that will affect my career so I won’t be donating any money in that direction. Want me to be pro-life? Then convince me of your arguments. Threaten my livelihood and I’ll dig in my heels even more until we’re not even discussing the issue anymore, but entrenching myself based on a dislike of the methods. For one thing, anti-gay people and organizations have been boycotting gay-run businesses for a long time. And frankly, one reason why I, as a business owner, do not keep my sexual orientation secret, is that I would rather do business with friends than enemies. Boycotting has a long history in this country, from the Boston Tea Party to MLK’s Montgomery Bus Boycott. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/36 "2009-02-04T16:31:35Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Boycotting has a long history in this country, from the Boston Tea Party to MLK’s Montgomery Bus Boycott. Equally long is the history of boycotts that never make an appreciable difference, like boycotts of the Disney Corporation or of Jane Fonda’s movies, books and videos. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/37 "2009-02-04T16:33:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > On the other hand, I haven’t seen pro-gay gangs roaming the streets of Sacramento beating up Mormons (much less firebombing their churches). No, but we have seen people [lose their jobs](http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/1393290.html) [because of modest political contributions](http://www.frontierspublishing.com/2716/yourworld/breaking_news_12_08_2008.html). If an employee’s private political activity can lead to that employer being boycotted by its clients, ISTM that employers will start suggesting employees not make any contributions, and will look up a prospect’s past political contributions to make sure he’s “safe.” “Teacher resigns from Catholic High School amid protests over his contributions to Planned Parenthood.” “Ft. Bragg, NC restaurant fires manager whose support for [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) led to boycott.” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/38 "2009-02-04T16:35:22Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > So again - if I were to sue claiming that the _Reader’s_ website activities constituted an in-kind contribution and demanded the names of subscribers (who after all donated money) and the identities of prominent posters In the case that is the subject of this thread, you wanted U.S. District Judge Morrison England Jr. to write new law from the bench. In the hypothetical case you describe, you would be asking some other judge to write another new law from the bench. So at least your lawsuit would have the virtue of consistency. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/39 "2009-02-04T16:40:30Z")
If it matters, U.S. District Judge Morrison England Jr. is a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362/40 "2009-02-04T16:41:24Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > In the case that is the subject of this thread, you wanted U.S. District Judge Morrison England Jr. to write new law from the bench. In the hypothetical case you describe, you would be asking some other judge to write another new law from the bench. So at least your lawsuit would have the virtue of consistency. Bingo. Understanding the Constitution’s writers to have had a purpose in writing broad-brush guarantees of rights to have meant that they intended to guarantee rights broadly is contrary to Conservative principles, and “judicial activism” – but when pulling new legal principles not enshrined in Constitution or statute advances Conservative goals, that’s perfectly all right. And they wonder why we consider them hypocritical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-public-service-names-of-proposition-8-supporters/484362.md?page=3)