# A question about Automats **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 16, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991 "2015-01-16T16:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/1 "2015-01-16T16:42:02Z")
In the series “Agent Carter” she frequently stops at an Automat. On the show she sits and talks to the waitress while being served food. I always thought the idea of an Automat was that you when in, stuck a couple coins in the slot, got the food, then sat down to eat. Did the old time Automats have waitresses that served food? What would be the point of having an Automat in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/2 "2015-01-16T16:49:54Z")
I thought the waitress was mostly serving coffee…? Maybe it’s an automat where you have the option of serving yourself or being served? OK, I got nothing, but I was sort of wondering the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/3 "2015-01-16T16:54:38Z")
Automats _were_ heavily staffed. Someone had to bus the tables, refill the slots, take the money, etc. I would expect that someone serving coffee, tea, etc. would have been standard. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/4 "2015-01-16T16:55:48Z")
I don’t recall any waitresses in the automats. There was the woman in a little booth who exchanged your money for nickels, and there were the women who cleaned up when you left. But I don’t remember any waitresses (or male employees either). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/5 "2015-01-16T17:09:34Z")
Well, of course there weren’t any male employees, you could legally pay women less for the same work so it was more profitable to keep an all woman staff. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/6 "2015-01-16T18:49:07Z")
> **[The Automat - the History, Recipes, and Allure of Horn & Hardart's...](https://www.theautomat.net/)** > > A book celebrating Horn and Hardart's Automat, by Lorraine B. Diehl and Marianne Hardart. Filled with history, photographs, recipes and stories that bring you right back to the heyday of the Automats. Knock yourself out. I remember them when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/7 "2015-01-16T19:55:52Z")
> [@](#): > > For all the good food, the Automat’s real secret weapon was its coffee. Horn & Hardart popularized fresh drip-brewed coffee in New York. Prior to the Automat, coffee was often harsh and bitter, boiled and clarified with eggshells. The Automat’s smooth aromatic brew flowed regally from ornate brass spigots in the shape of dolphin heads. In their heyday, Automats sold over 90 million cups of their fresh-brewed coffee each year. And they were committed to keeping it fresh. When an Automat employee brewed coffee, they filled out a time card. After twenty minutes, they discarded whatever coffee was left and made a fresh pot. If there was any doubt about Horn & Hardart’s commitment to java, the Automat even adopted Irving Berlin’s “Let’s Have Another Cup Of Coffee” as their unofficial theme song From [Automatic for the People: Remembering the Automat Restaurants](http://mentalfloss.com/article/29508/automatic-people-remembering-automat-restaurants) NO waitresses serving coffee. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/8 "2015-01-16T20:27:00Z")
In the show the automat is on one side of the restaurant and the booths and tables are on the other side, where there is also a grill for hot food. That doesn’t strike me as unusual. Of course, the show \*has \*to have a waitress, so she can be victimized by all the awful evil white men. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/9 "2015-01-16T21:53:19Z")
The OP might look at some movie clips: https://www.youtube.com/embed/we0vziFsl9I?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PLD8CD14890E05783B ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/10 "2015-01-16T22:07:52Z")
Horn & Hardart is the name everyone remembers, but they had competitors. Possibly some had counter service for some items, like eggs that had to be served fresh, and vending slots for other foods that could be centrally produced. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/11 "2015-01-17T00:13:14Z")
Horn and Hardarts (I ate at several in the 1950s and 60s) had not waitstaff. Coffee came from a spigot; you put in a coin and it would fill the cup. Food was kept behind windows. Someone staffed the cash register and others bussed the tables and cleaned up. Most people were in the kitchen, behind the wall, and they’d fill up any empty compartments. Hot water was free (but you’d pay for a tea bag). I’ve seen accounts of people who would fill a cup with it and with ketchup from the dispenser for some free “soup.” Though you had to make sure no one caught you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/12 "2015-01-17T05:56:42Z")
There’s a pretty bleak automat in _Dark City_: [At the Automat, pt. 12 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAj_5-PZoyI) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/13 "2015-01-17T07:12:23Z")
I see the last automat in NYC closed in 1991. I hadn’t realized they had lasted that long. ---
**Author:** ![Deidzoeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Deidzoeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deidzoeb)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/14 "2015-01-17T19:28:20Z")
There’s a Wikipedia entry on the Horn & Hardart chain that gives somewhat conflicting info about this. > **[Horn & Hardart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_%26_Hardart)** > > Horn & Hardart was a food services company in the United States noted for operating the first food service automats in Philadelphia, New York City, and Baltimore. > Philadelphia's Joseph Horn (1861–1941) and German-born, New Orleans-raised Frank Hardart (1850–1918) opened their first restaurant together in Philadelphia, on December 22, 1888. The small, 11-by-17-foot (3.4 m × 5.2 m) lunchroom at 39 South Thirteenth Street had no tables, only a counter with 15 stools. The location had housed the p... “But Automats weren’t truly automatic. They were heavily staffed. As a customer removed a compartment’s contents, a behind-the-machine human quickly slipped another sandwich, salad, piece of pie or coffee cake into the vacated chamber.” (quoted from Crowley, Carolyn Hughes. “Meet Me at the Automat,” Smithsonian Magazine, August 2001.) On the other hand, the subheading on the decline of H&H says: “The restaurants remained popular into the 1960s with automats, sit-down waitress service restaurants, cafeterias, and bakery shops.” The fact that they contrast “automats” next to “sit-down waitress service restaurants” seems to imply automats had no waitresses. I give the tv show credit for remembering or researching the fact that automats were a thing in the 40s. Maybe they can be excused for this lapse if we assume the waitress is mainly bussing tables. Maybe part of her complaint about the harassing customers is that they expect her to act like a full-service waitress. I could have sworn she poured coffee in one episode though. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/15 "2015-01-18T08:37:00Z")
I wish I knew how they made their coffee; it was indeed the best . . . as well as their baked beans chicken pot pie, lemon meringue pie, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/16 "2015-01-18T10:10:15Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The OP might look at some movie clips: > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0vziFsl9I&list=PLD8CD14890E05783B](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0vziFsl9I&list=PLD8CD14890E05783B) What’s up with that 1930’s style CCTV camera on the second video, at 4:45? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/17 "2015-01-18T10:21:35Z")
I’ve always wondered why this business model went extinct. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/18 "2015-01-18T12:11:04Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I’ve always wondered why this business model went extinct. > [@](#): > > By the 1960s, suburban sprawl, changing tastes and newer fast-food restaurant chains were taking their toll on the Automat’s business. By the 1970s, Horn & Hardart were replacing Automats with Burger King franchises. The last of the Horn & Hardart establishments closed in April 1991. In 2006, a restaurant called Bamn tried to revive the Automat concept in New York’s East Village, but its success was short-lived. A section of Horn & Hardart’s flagship 1902 Automat in Philadelphia is preserved in the Smithsonian National Museum. Again, from [Automatic for the People: Remembering the Automat Restaurants](http://mentalfloss.com/article/29508/automatic-people-remembering-automat-restaurants) ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/19 "2015-01-18T18:43:33Z")
The followup question would be _why_. It sounds like burger joints explicitly replaced automats, in some cases acting as direct upgrades. Why would places specializing in beef sandwiches and greasy potatoes replace the automat fare? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991/20 "2015-01-18T19:18:58Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > The followup question would be _why_. It sounds like burger joints explicitly replaced automats, in some cases acting as direct upgrades. Why would places specializing in beef sandwiches and greasy potatoes replace the automat fare? The same reason they have changed the lunchtime dining experience in the US the last 50 years. How can you explain success? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-automats/709991.md?page=2)