# A question about "concealed carry" \ **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376 "2008-01-21T14:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/61 "2008-01-24T20:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Are you saying that a non-FFL holder cannot send a ‘gun’ (i.e. a whole one, or the part with the s/n such as the frame or receiver)? Or just that he can’t send it by US Postal Service? Because several dealers have told me that a non-FFL holder can send firearms to an FFL-holder. [/QUOTE] USPS allows FFL holders to send long guns and hand guns. Non-FFL holders must send handguns by common carrier. That means UPS or FedEx, and they have to go overnight express. I recently sent a handgun from St. Louis to Streator IL via FedEx. Cost $35. If I had let my local FFL send it by USPS it would have been about $5 Next time I’ll pay him a couple of bucks to drive to the P.O. ---
**Author:** ![filmyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@filmyak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmyak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/62 "2008-01-24T20:49:59Z")
Total aside, but I had a friend in Florida with a concealed carry permit, and he used it to get out of speeding tix. Cop pulls him over, he shows his license and simultaneously hands over his weapon permit. Cops invariable asks where the gun is, my friend would point at it in the pocket on the side of the car door. Cop would check permit, find it was valid, and let my friend go. They apparently didn’t want to risk any potential problems with an armed man who was pulled over, legal or not. Wasn’t worth it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/63 "2008-01-24T21:59:30Z")
[QUOTE=filmyak] They apparently didn’t want to risk any potential problems with an armed man who was pulled over, legal or not. Wasn’t worth it to them. [/QUOTE] Or maybe they just appreciated being informed. I kinda doubt they were seriously afraid of him doing something, and if they were I don’t think they would let him off like that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/64 "2008-01-24T22:25:40Z")
Just for the record, concealed carry permits aren’t just about guns. Here in Montana, my CWP (concealed weapon permit) gives me the right to carry large knives concealed upon my person as well as firearms. There are certainly places where you can carry openly but not carry concealed, although this varies from state to state. Speaking only for Montana, the holder of a CWP cannot carry a concealed weapon into any government-owned building (Federal, state, county, or city), any school, anyplace that serves alcohol, or a bank. Cities can also enact their own statutes. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/65 "2008-01-24T22:31:35Z")
Just how concealed does a weapon have to be? I mean would the barrel of an AK poking up from under my puncho be concealed? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/66 "2008-01-24T23:02:35Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Are you saying that a non-FFL holder cannot send a ‘gun’ (i.e. a whole one, or the part with the s/n such as the frame or receiver)? Or just that he can’t send it by US Postal Service? Because several dealers have told me that a non-FFL holder can send firearms to an FFL-holder. [/QUOTE] I was typing up a follow-up on that post when work interfered. **GaryM** has pretty much covered it, but to maybe clarify a little. Non-FFL holders cannot ship a handgun through the post office(USPS). They must use a private carrier like Fedex or UPS. Long guns may be sent through USPS. Most handgun parts can be sent by any convenient method, includine USPS. Barrels, magazines, trigger kits, firing pins, whatever. _Except_ for the receiver. For the non-gun familiar readers, this is the central component to which all the other pieces are attached, and the part which is stamped with the serial number. The receiver of a handgun must be sent through a private carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/67 "2008-01-24T23:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=ChrisBooth12] Just how concealed does a weapon have to be? I mean would the barrel of an AK poking up from under my puncho be concealed? [/QUOTE] It must be completely concealed and care taken to prevent accidentally displaying it in a public venue. An AK is not a handgun and therefore not covered by a CCW. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/68 "2008-01-24T23:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=Projammer] It must be completely concealed and care taken to prevent accidentally displaying it in a public venue. [/quote] Only in jurisdictions that ban open carry - most don’t. Unless you live in such a jurisdiction, don’t take any extreme measures to conceal your gun - if you’re not comfortable with open carry, just keeping it out of sight under a shirt or jacket should provide all the concealment you need without making it uncomfortable or inaccessible. > [@](#): > > An AK is not a handgun and therefore not covered by a CCW. This depends on the exact license issued by your state. Here in Washington, it’s a CPL (Concealed Pistol License) and applies only to handguns, but I don’t believe there’s any WA law against concealing a rifle. Carrying a rifle openly might get you in trouble under 9.41.270 which was mentioned earlier in this thread, but it depends on the manner of carry – an unloaded rifle or two, carried under the arm or over the shoulder during daylight hours, would certainly be legal (State v. Casad), but a loaded AK47, carried at night in a ready position while moving quickly and avoiding eye contact, is not (State v. Spencer). However, if you **try** to conceal a rifle under your clothes but it’s still obviously visible, you might very well run afoul of the “warrants alarm” clause of 9.41.270, since a person without criminal intent most likely either carry the rifle openly or in a case, and it might be reasonable to be alarmed if you see the barrel of an AK47 poking out of someone’s shirt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/69 "2008-01-25T13:28:39Z")
[QUOTE=Projammer] An AK is not a handgun and therefore not covered by a CCW. [/QUOTE] As **Potato** said, this varies from state to state. In Montana, if you have the license to own an AK, your CWP allows you to carry it concealed. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/70 "2008-01-25T20:25:48Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] As **Potato** said, this varies from state to state. In Montana, if you have the license to own an AK, your CWP allows you to carry it concealed. [/QUOTE] You need a license to own an AK in Montana? You sure about that? As far as I know there are only a couple of states that require any sort of licensing for general firearms ownership, and Montana definitely wouldn’t be one I’d expect. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/71 "2008-01-25T22:45:58Z")
Montana itself doesn’t require permits to purchase any type of gun. I thought you had to have a Federal permit for fully-automatic weapons, though. I’ve never tried to buy one, so I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/72 "2008-01-25T23:12:30Z")
Semi-auto AK’s are fairly cheap and available. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/73 "2008-01-26T00:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] Montana itself doesn’t require permits to purchase any type of gun. I thought you had to have a Federal permit for fully-automatic weapons, though. I’ve never tried to buy one, so I don’t know. [/QUOTE] OK, just a misunderstanding then. I should have realized that was what you meant. 😛 What **Bob** said. Semiautomatic AKs are very common and popular rifles (the local gun shop practically has a whole wall full of them), so usually when I hear “AK-47” I think of the semiauto versions first. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/74 "2008-01-26T02:22:04Z")
[QUOTE=Stealth Potato] OK, just a misunderstanding then. I should have realized that was what you meant. 😛 What **Bob** said. Semiautomatic AKs are very common and popular rifles (the local gun shop practically has a whole wall full of them), so usually when I hear “AK-47” I think of the semiauto versions first. [/QUOTE] Is it true that the AK-47’s design allows you to “file off the interruptor pin” and turn it into a full-auto, or is that an UL? I know that’s impossible for many semi-autos, but I presume the idea had to originate somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/75 "2008-01-26T02:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=TJVM] Most of the “no gun” signs I’ve seen are just printed up on a piece of paper, or else are simple stickers on the door. The cost of such a sign is nearly zero. [/QUOTE] How much does the lost business of the gun nuts and the gun nut sympathizers cost? ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/76 "2008-01-26T02:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Is it true that the AK-47’s design allows you to “file off the interruptor pin” and turn it into a full-auto, or is that an UL? I know that’s impossible for many semi-autos, but I presume the idea had to originate somewhere. [/QUOTE] It’s an urban legend as far as “full-auto” is concerned. It’s possible there are ways to break the gun to induce runaway slamfire, but that would be extremely stupid and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![TJVM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b38774/32.png) [@TJVM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJVM)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/77 "2008-01-26T03:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > How much does the lost business of the gun nuts and the gun nut sympathizers cost? I interpreted **slaphead** ’s post above to be referring to the cost of the sign itself. In answer to your question, I don’t know the cost of losing that business. I also don’t know the cost of losing the business of people who would like to see that sign there. I don’t know the cost that would be incurred if someone tried to commit a crime in your store, and someone carrying a concealed weapon decided he was going to show these criminals who’s boss, and a gunfight ensued. I don’t know the likelihood that a licensed concealed weapon-holder will use his weapon in a way that’s helpful, versus the likelihood that such a person will use his weapon in a way that’s harmful. In short, there are a number of variables that are hard to precisely measure, and require judgment calls. Therefore, I think that reasonable people could disagree about whether putting up a “no weapons” sign is advisable, and if that’s the case, it would not seem to be irrational to put one up, as some have suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/78 "2008-01-26T04:28:02Z")
A buddy of mine owns a manufacturing company in Columbus, OH. He buys a lot of computer hardware as part of his business. He estimates he purchases about $30K/year from a local supplier called [Micro Center](http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/index.html). He got his CCW license soon after the law went into effect. Not long afterwards, he went to Micro Center to place a routine order for some computer hardware. He was very perturbed after seeing a CPZ sign on their front entrance. Next thing you know he’s in the manger’s office. **My buddy:** When did you post the CPZ sign?! **Micro Center Manager:** A couple week ago. **My buddy:** Why? **Micro Center Manager:** We just don’t think it’s a good idea for people to be carrying guns in our store. **My buddy:** I buy $30K worth of equipment from you every year. I’m also licensed to carry a concealed weapon. If that sign doesn’t come down _right now_, I’m going to look for a new place to buy computer equipment. The sign came down. That was three years ago. As far as I know, they’ve never put the sign back up. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/79 "2008-01-26T06:03:51Z")
Sheesh. I hope that exchange was paraphrased a bit! If I had been your buddy, I would have done that more tactfully. If that’s really how he handled the situation, he acted like a bully, and probably left the store owner with a rather unpleasant impression of gun owners and carriers. A polite approach rationally explaining one’s opposition would do much more good. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376/80 "2008-01-26T15:38:02Z")
[QUOTE=Crafter\_Man] The sign came down. [/QUOTE] I bet your buddy was kicking himself that he didn’t ask for a blow job and a foot massage as well… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-concealed-carry-sic/434376.md?page=3)