# A question about curve balls **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 14, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445 "2012-08-14T06:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/21 "2012-08-15T21:49:33Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Speaking of curveballs, Felix Hernandez’s curve today is freaking unfair. 12-6 hammer drop at 83 mph. No wonder he’s through six innings without allowing a baserunner. > > Oh yeah, if you haven’t been watching the Mariners-Rays game today, you should probably start. Just sayin’… Thanks for the heads up. Middle of the eighth now . ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/22 "2012-08-15T22:07:27Z")
Perfecto! ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/23 "2012-08-15T22:31:33Z")
And that’s why he’s the King. ---
**Author:** ![SubKern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@SubKern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SubKern)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/24 "2013-02-02T05:13:55Z")
I actually was talking to the guy from Moneyball this summer. It’s Chad Bradford. He was giving some tips and he said that he could throw two breaking balls. One broke like your regular slurve and the other rose in on lefties. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/25 "2013-02-02T20:10:12Z")
Huh. I never heard of a “dropball” before this thread. Is this a really old term? I grew up in the 80s, and the term is completely foreign to me. Of course, growing up, we didn’t have slurves and cutters, either. The first I remember hearing those terms was some time in the 90s, perhaps even the early 00s. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/26 "2013-02-02T20:14:29Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. I never heard of a “dropball” before this thread. Is this a really old term? I grew up in the 80s, and the term is completely foreign to me. Of course, growing up, we didn’t have slurves and cutters, either. The first I remember hearing those terms was some time in the 90s, perhaps even the early 00s. I’ve seen “drop” used in some older accounts(pre 50s) but not “dropball”. ETA: I’ve also seen claims that the “nickel curve” was a slider. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/27 "2013-02-02T20:21:18Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The submarine is a pitch itself, not just a throwing motion, and it has a break to it (a pretty big one). If a pitcher who normally pitches submarine wants to pitch a regular curve ball or any other overhand pitch, he can. No. “Submarine” refers to the arm slot and means the pitcher throws underhand, so it is a throwing motion. There are four general pitch positions – overhand (most common), 3/4, sidearm, and submarine. Submarine pitchers are extremely rare today You certainly can curve a submarine pitch – [softball pitchers](http://www.ehow.com/video_4954596_softball-pitching-how-throw-curveball.html) do it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/28 "2013-02-04T19:29:43Z")
> [@SubKern](#): > > I actually was talking to the guy from Moneyball this summer. It’s Chad Bradford. He was giving some tips and he said that he could throw two breaking balls. One broke like your regular slurve and the other rose in on lefties. Did Chad say if his arm angle was the same on both pitches? I assume it would be, or else it would be an obvious tip to the batter what was coming. I imagine the difference is in the grip. He probably grips his slurve like a regular slider. His other pitch is probably gripped the same was as an overhand curve, just thrown from the submarine angle. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. I never heard of a “dropball” before this thread. Is this a really old term? I grew up in the 80s, and the term is completely foreign to me. Of course, growing up, we didn’t have slurves and cutters, either. The first I remember hearing those terms was some time in the 90s, perhaps even the early 00s. My dad taught me what he called a “dropball” and he played in the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/29 "2013-02-04T22:10:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Noverhand (most common), 3/4, sidearm, and submarine. Submarine pitchers are extremely rare today It seems to me that three-quarters is the most common slot, but I suppose that depends on where the overhand ends and where three-quarters begins. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/30 "2013-02-04T22:31:40Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It seems to me that three-quarters is the most common slot, but I suppose that depends on where the overhand ends and where three-quarters begins. I find it hard to distinquish. You have to factor in body position, arm angle and the bend of the elbow. I’ve seen these things reduced to a lot of detail, but watching baseball is mostly escapist activity to me, so I don’t spend a lot of time analyzing (well, pitchers anyway, sometimes I’m looking at the hitting closely). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/31 "2013-02-05T14:45:59Z")
Scroll to the bottom of this article. [http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16370](http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16370) I’d say Halladay is at 3/4 while Weaver is clearly overhand. Kershaw is overhand, too, and displays the most technically sound form of the pitchers on that page. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/32 "2013-02-05T16:10:29Z")
Yeah, I also found [this on baseball-reference.com](http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Pitches): > [@](#): > > The three-quarter pitching style is between a side arm and overhand motion, with the pitcher’s arm at “10 or 11 o’clock” for a right hander or “1 or 2 o’clock” for a lefty. Both the legs and arm are used for velocity. With this pitching style, the ball will tend to have a tailing, sinking action as the ball gets near the plate. Any pitch can be thrown from a three-quarters delivery, though the curve will be less effective than when thrown overhand. Famous three-quarter pitchers include Bob Gibson and Pedro Martinez. It is the most common delivery today. It does seem to be a matter of definition. It sounds like by that, Weaver would be counted as a 3/4 pitcher, as his slot is 11 o’clock, but I’d probably call it overhand, like you, or possibly high three-quarters. And [here’s a discussion on a pitching message board](http://www.letstalkpitching.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=73236) with folks having a difficult time coming up with overhand pitchers. So it very much is a definitional thing. I think we can all agree, though, that [Hideki Okajima](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OwtjSW7O6Xc/TdYim77pSXI/AAAAAAAARHo/5SBBM7uaGgA/s1600/hideki-okajima-23.jpg) is about as overhand as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/33 "2013-02-05T16:37:23Z")
Couldn’t a submarine pitcher throw a curveball by rolling it off his fingers, like an overhand pitcher would throw a rising fastball? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445/34 "2013-02-05T17:22:29Z")
That would probably be more of a screwball, where it would have a tail to the throwing arm side. It wouldn’t have as sharp of a break like a curve. I consider 11:00 overhand for a righty. You’re right, almost nobody throws straight over the top 12:00. It’s impractical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-curve-balls/631445.md?page=1)