# A question about Federal Employment
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [March 11, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937 "2008-03-11T06:30:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@bookbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bookbabe)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/1 "2008-03-11T06:30:50Z")
Recently, I was offered a job with Social Security. Along with the ginourmous amount of paperwork I have to complete to accept this job is a lovely form entitled “Questionnaire for Non Sensitive Positions”. This form includes work history questions, school questions, releases for information etc. One of the things that the form includes is asking for 4 different people who " know you well" (not including your relatives or spouse) along with their address and phone number.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Are they planning on calling up the various people I list and asking them questions? Why exactly would you do a background check after offering someone a job?
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### Author:  [@wouldn\_t\_you\_like\_to\_know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wouldn_t_you_like_to_know)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/2 "2008-03-11T06:47:44Z")
I don’t have any experience with that particular form; however, I worked as a contractor at a federal government facility for 3 years and can tell you that we would have issues with background checks after hiring contract employees.
We would hired people, have them fill out all of the contractor paperwork and have them working for up to two weeks before the agency would come back to us and tell us that they either needed additional information for the employee or that we could no longer have them work on our contract. They would never tell us why the person failed the background check. Typically they would asks us to have the person leave the site immediately. This is all post 9/11.
This was fairly typical. I know of one person who went to work for another agency (again in a contract position) that required a more detailed security check (but not a full DOD secret clearance). She has been on the job for over 18 months and still has not been cleared to perform the job she was hired for. They have re-assigned her to handle tasks she has been cleared for, but still waiting on the security check to come through.
I don’t recall ever hearing about a government hire being asked to quit/resign after being hired, but typically, the job offer for the government positions said something along the lines of “dependent upon successful completion of a background/security check”.
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/3 "2008-03-11T07:01:47Z")
I’m not sure if this [question I asked previously](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457088) was ever fully answered, to wit, if you put down an incorrect statement on your application, could you potentially go to jail?
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### Author:  [@bookbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bookbabe)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/4 "2008-03-11T07:02:05Z")
It’s just a really strange way to go about doing things.
I’m a little worried because I was offered the job today, to start next Monday, and I will have to move 3 hours away to take the job. I really don’t want to move and find out a couple of months later that I don’t pass the background check. I can’t really think of any reason why I wouldn’t pass the background check, but I wouldn’t set up a system where you hired people and let them work for you for a while before deciding they were a security risk.
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### Author:  [@Shecky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shecky)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/5 "2008-03-11T11:30:39Z")
In a nutshell: it doesn’t matter _much_. Essentially, they will do a backgorund check at higher levels, but the chances of them hitting your references for anything under a GS-12 position are slim.
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### Author:  [@Radegast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Radegast)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/6 "2008-03-11T11:44:56Z")
It does seem a little odd. I just finished doing my 5-year update forms for my security clearance this morning. If you were applying for a SENSITIVE position, they could not offer you the job until your clearance was done. My info sat on a desk in an FBI office for the better part of a year before they acted on it, delaying my hiring by about a year. They are supposed to be doing better now, but I don’t think that is the case.
In your case, I wouldn’t worry unless you’ve done something especially egregious, or egregious in the eyes of the USG, such as heavy, not-previously admitted drug use or actions that would cast doubt on your reliability or character.
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### Author:  [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/7 "2008-03-11T13:15:40Z")
I’ve been at my Government job for almost 20 years, but had never had a full background check or been fingerprinted. Last summer, they decided to give new photo ID’s to everyone at the agency, so anyone who didn’t have fingerprints on file needed the background check. I selected my 4 references, and they contacted at least 3 of them. I’m a GS-12.
The job is also financially sensitive (I need to fill out a form that lists all family investments each year). Do you have any reason to think your background check will come up with problems (arrests, financial weirdness, etc.)? If not, odds are you will pass the check.
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### Author:  [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/8 "2008-03-11T13:24:50Z")
I’m in one of the non-sensitive positions and I remember filling one of those out. I don’t remember them ever calling anyone so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I don’t think they would fire you unless you had some really bad info that you lied about in the hiring process.
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### Author:  [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/9 "2008-03-11T13:52:50Z")
GS-13 (and climbing). Yes, I filled it out. Isn’t that the one to give you the lowest level clearance possible (it’s green, right?). They called up everyone I listed on it.
Beware, they’re fond of asking you to fill out the same forms over and over and over again.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/10 "2008-03-11T14:01:52Z")
They’ll check. Or at least they may.
Not sure what the form is like now, but I have before me the SF (standard form) 85 I filled out back in 8/86. Data for Nonsensitive or Noncritical-Sensitive Position.
It required dates, named, and addresses of employers back to 1/1/37, so I dutifully filled in every stupid part-time and summer job I had since high school.
After I had been working for a year, I got called down to personnel to discuss “discrepancies” between my SF 85 and my SF 171. Apparently I had neglected to include each and every job on the SF 171. Since I was being hired as a lawyer, I thought only academic and law-related work was really relevant.
But the biggest deal was that they had contacted a manager at a liquor store I had worked at while in college, and he said either that he had fired me or that I had quit to avoid being fired. The SF 171 asked that question, and I said no.
Long story, but it was quite a shock to be a licensed professional in a full-time job, married, buying a house, and planning a family, and learn that my job was potentially in jeopardy because of an argument I had had with a supervisor on a part-time job several years earlier.
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### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/11 "2008-03-11T14:06:58Z")
> [@bookbabe](#):
>
> Are they planning on calling up the various people I list and asking them questions?
They might. Or they might ask those people for other people who know you, and call those people.
They _do_ hire and give security clearances to social recluses who don’t know their neighbors, if that’s what you’re worried about.
**Don’t lie** on those forms. They will find out, and bad things will happen. Usually what happens if they find out you lied will be worse than whatever would have happened if you had told the truth about what you were trying to hide in the first place.
You may run into difficulty if you have a DUI on your record. A friend of mine at my last job had one, and they made him go to a couple of alcohol counseling sessions before they would give him a clearance. He did eventually get it, though.
> [@](#):
>
> Why exactly would you do a background check after offering someone a job?
Because it takes a long time to do those checks. If they’ve got some work that someone who hadn’t passed these checks could do, they can get some work out of you while the background check is being done.
[QUOTE=anu-la1979]
Beware, they’re fond of asking you to fill out the same forms over and over and over again.
[/QUOTE]
Keep a copy somewhere. You _will_ need that information again, and it’s handy to have it all in one place.
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### Author:  [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/12 "2008-03-11T14:32:18Z")
I’d take the job and not worry about it. With a “non-sensitive” position, below grade 12, unless there are arrests for criminal activities that you have lied about, you have little reason to be concerned. Traffic violations, even DWI, won’t be a biggie unless you’ve lied about it. Even if they find some discrepancies, the worst you should normally expect is to have to correct your records.
Remember, the people responsible for hiring you want you to fill the position. They have hoops to jump through, but they aren’t out looking for unnecessary trouble.
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### Author:  [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/13 "2008-03-11T15:41:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **Anne Neville** : Keep a copy somewhere. You will need that information again, and it’s handy to have it all in one place.
Oh if it were only that easy. I tried that, until I was told most sharpish to _fill it out again_. Besides, I was hired through a specific program for attorneys that accelerated my grades very fast over 3 years, so it wasn’t practical for me anyway, since the SF-whatthefuckever info changes every year.
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### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/14 "2008-03-11T15:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=anu-la1979]
Oh if it were only that easy. I tried that, until I was told most sharpish to _fill it out again_. Besides, I was hired through a specific program for attorneys that accelerated my grades very fast over 3 years, so it wasn’t practical for me anyway, since the SF-whatthefuckever info changes every year.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but if you have a copy, even if you have to physically fill out a new form, at least you have all the information in one place.
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### Author:  [@bookbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bookbabe)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/15 "2008-03-11T16:48:12Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
They _do_ hire and give security clearances to social recluses who don’t know their neighbors, if that’s what you’re worried about.
[/QUOTE]
I certainly don’t know any of my neighbors and I am actually having a little difficulty coming up with 4 people who “know me well” outside of my extended family. I quit working 6 months ago to go and finish my degree and did not keep up with any of the people that I used to work with. The college is oriented toward the adult learner and I haven’t seen anyone more than once at weekend classes.
Sheesh. I am social recluse. :smack:
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### Author:  [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/16 "2008-03-11T17:27:54Z")
again, **Anne Neville** ,
> [@](#):
>
> Besides, I was hired through a specific program for attorneys that accelerated my grades very fast over 3 years, so it wasn’t practical for me anyway, since the SF-whatthefuckever info changes every year.
You know what’s awesome? When randomass internet people insist on giving advice that don’t make no sense. My grade changes EVERY YEAR, dude. That means all the slots on the SF-whatthefuckever refer back to last year’s “job” at GS-lastyear’sgrade. Savvy?
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### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/17 "2008-03-11T17:32:13Z")
[QUOTE=bookbabe]
I certainly don’t know any of my neighbors and I am actually having a little difficulty coming up with 4 people who “know me well” outside of my extended family. I quit working 6 months ago to go and finish my degree and did not keep up with any of the people that I used to work with. The college is oriented toward the adult learner and I haven’t seen anyone more than once at weekend classes.
Sheesh. I am social recluse. :smack:
[/QUOTE]
You’d have fit right in with most of the people I knew at my last job. And we had to get Top Secret security clearances, which is probably a more extensive investigation than you will go through. Don’t worry. Just pick someone who knew you well at some point and who isn’t likely to panic if government agents come to ask them questions.
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### Author:  [@Shecky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shecky)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/18 "2008-03-11T19:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
But the biggest deal was that they had contacted a manager at a liquor store I had worked at while in college, and he said either that he had fired me or that I had quit to avoid being fired. The SF 171 asked that question, and I said no.
Long story, but it was quite a shock to be a licensed professional in a full-time job, married, buying a house, and planning a family, and learn that my job was potentially in jeopardy because of an argument I had had with a supervisor on a part-time job several years earlier.
[/QUOTE]
I had the same experience with a real job, and apparently the HR director at that place really didn’t like me. The scurtiy agent person actually asked me what I did to make her not like me that much.
Me? I camped out in her office every time my paycheck was late/off/“being issued.” After the gym, but before taking a shower. I also made sure to eat tuna and onions after the 4th time.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/19 "2008-03-11T19:25:01Z")
[QUOTE=anu-la1979]
again, **Anne Neville** ,
You know what’s awesome? When randomass internet people insist on giving advice that don’t make no sense.
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like someone needs to hit the links …
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### Author:  [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-federal-employment/440937/20 "2008-03-11T19:55:45Z")
I’ve only been through one recent, non-sensitive clearance myself–I work for HHS and have no access to classified info–but I have been contacted as a reference for two of my friends who have higher security jobs, one as a civilian contractor on a Naval base, the other in Homeland Security. Basically, if they do contact the people you list as references, they will just ask how long they’ve known you, have you ever been in any trouble with the police, are you likely to work to overthrow the gov’t. That sort of thing. I just answered their questions simply and honestly.
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