# A Question About German Songs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253 "2011-07-08T00:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/1 "2011-07-08T00:43:24Z")
[http://www.bunker-kundschafter.de/Liedermusikanten.htm](http://www.bunker-kundschafter.de/Liedermusikanten.htm) Why do so many of these songs give the girls names ending with “-marie”? ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/2 "2011-07-08T04:27:57Z")
There’s nothing really special with regard to songs specifically. Marie’s the German form for the mother of Jesus, and one of the most popular girl’s names around. At least in Europe or other Christian-influenced areas, Germany included. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/3 "2011-07-08T10:10:10Z")
Where did you find that site? Looks extremely dodgy and far right-wing to me. You don’t find many mainstream Germans glorifying the soldier’s songs from WWII. But yes, **panamajack** is right, Marie is German for Mary and a lot of names end with it - you know how much we love word compounds! ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/4 "2011-07-08T10:36:17Z")
Cannot say if the OP’s assertion is correct because I don’t know these dated marching songs; 1. Marie is the second most popular second first name for German girls born 1890-2005 (cite [Die häufigsten Zweitnamen](http://www.beliebte-vornamen.de/465-zweitnamen.htm) ) - the most popular one being Maria (note: Germans often have multiple first names - you can register up to five first names at birth; I have two and my father has four. For very legal and very official use you use all of them; for everyday use you choose one to go by.) 2. There are a number of compound female first names ending on -marie (Annemarie, Rosemarie, Heidemarie etc.) - perhaps because they are euphonious 3. The stress in the -marie compound first names being on the last syllable, they may be particularly suitable for purposes of scansion. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/5 "2011-07-08T10:54:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > [http://www.bunker-kundschafter.de/Liedermusikanten.htm](http://www.bunker-kundschafter.de/Liedermusikanten.htm) Yikes, this website looks like a double flashback from the past, thematically/ideologically from sometime between 1933-45, and by design from 1996. Either way disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/6 "2011-07-08T15:15:36Z")
Marie as Mother of Jesus is also a very common name in Catholic areas, as second or third name. Interesting bit: Under German law, when a child is given its name by the parents, certain guidelines have to be met (normal spelling, no demeaning name, name must be established, so no novelty names\*). One of them is that the first name must indicate the gender of the child unambiguously, and even with second and more names, you’re not allowed to give a boy’s name to a girl and vice versa (ambigous abbreviations can be second names, though). The only exception is for boys to have Maria as second name in Catholic areas. That’s why there are [famous male people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_(given_name)#As_male_middle_name) having a female name. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/7 "2011-07-08T15:29:46Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Interesting bit: Under German law, when a child is given its name by the parents, certain guidelines have to be met (normal spelling, no demeaning name, name must be established, so no novelty names\*). One of them is that the first name must indicate the gender of the child unambiguously, and even with second and more names, you’re not allowed to give a boy’s name to a girl and vice versa (ambigous abbreviations can be second names, though). To expand on that, if the first name is ambiguous, you have to add an unambiguous second name. That’s why my nephew is called Kim _Philipp_. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/8 "2011-07-08T15:32:45Z")
Moving to Cafe Society from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/9 "2011-07-08T16:44:20Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > … you know how much we love word compounds! [And how.](http://courses.csusm.edu/grmn201mh/long%20words.htm) ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/10 "2011-07-08T19:09:14Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > To expand on that, if the first name is ambiguous, you have to add an unambiguous second name. That’s why my nephew is called Kim _Philipp_. Interestingly,[Wikipedia](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Vorname#Rechtliche_Situation_im_deutschen_Sprachraum) (German) says that this is not official law, just Rules for the Register officials (Standesbeamte) and a bunch of Court decisions; and also, that the unambiuous sex is no longer required, since that requirement has recently been struck down. > [@](#): > > Bei der Geschlechtsgebundenheit des Vornamens wurde eine ältere Dienstanweisung durch ein Urteil des Bundesverfassungsgerichts verworfen. Nach § 262 Abs. 4 der Dienstanweisung für die Standesbeamten und ihre Aufsichtsbehörden soll der Vorname eindeutig männlich oder weiblich sein. Lässt ein Vorname Zweifel über das Geschlecht des Kindes aufkommen, so soll der Standesbeamte verlangen, dass dem Kinde ein weiterer, den Zweifel ausschließender Vorname beigelegt wird. Eine Ausnahme stellen etablierte Namen wie Toni, Sascha, Nicola, Ashley, Robin, Andrea dar. Eine seit langem bestehende Ausnahme von der Geschlechtskennzeichnung stellt die Vergabe des weiblichen Vornamen Maria an einen Jungen dar (BGHZ 30, 132-140; mittlerweile sogar mit Bindestrich zulässig: Claus-Maria, AG Traunstein 10 UR III 61/92; Johannes-Marie, AG Mönchengladbach 15 III 7/97). Das Bundesverfassungsgericht entschied dagegen 2008, dass das Gesetz keine Begrenzung der elterlichen Vornamenswahl auf einen geschlechtsbezogenen Namen vorsieht (BVerfG, 1 BvR 576/07 vom 5. Dezember 2008)[14]. > > With the sex-indication of the first name, an older regulation was thrown out by a decision of the constitional court. According to § 262 part 4 of the regulation for registrar officials and their supervisor offices, the first name shall be clearly male or female. If a first name invites doubt about the gender of the child, the registrar official shall demand that another first name is added which eliminates the doubt. An exception are long established names like Toni, Sascha, Nicola (all male), Ashley, Robin, Andrea (female - although I would think of male Robin Hood, not female?). A long existing exception is the giving of the female first name Maria to a boy (now even allowed with hyphen). The constitutional court decided against that in 2008, that the law does not intend a restriction of the parents choice to a gender-indicating first name. (Translation on the fly by me) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/11 "2011-07-09T01:51:12Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Where did you find that site? Looks extremely dodgy and far right-wing to me. You don’t find many mainstream Germans glorifying the soldier’s songs from WWII. Most of the songs are non-ideological from the titles and context. And I don’t see this site “glorifying” the Nazis themselves as much as the common soldiers, > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Yikes, this website looks like a double flashback from the past, thematically/ideologically from sometime between 1933-45, and by design from 1996. Either way disgusting. It was linked to from a mainstream history forum, and I can’t read German but the information largely seems focused on the songs and nothing political. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/12 "2011-07-09T03:12:04Z")
Take me to your lieder. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/13 "2011-07-09T03:46:09Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Most of the songs are non-ideological from the titles and context. And I don’t see this site “glorifying” the Nazis themselves as much as the common soldiers, Is it twue what they say about bwack men? > [@](#): > > It was linked to from a mainstream history forum, and I can’t read German but the information largely seems focused on the songs and nothing political. I like your confident assertions about a website that you can’t read. You may be right. What makes you think so? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/14 "2011-07-09T03:59:56Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Is it twue what they say about bwack men? > I like your confident assertions about a website that you can’t read. You may be right. What makes you think so? From the text the song “Lili Marleen” is mentioned not to mention its singer is pictured. Since English is quite close to German one can often tell the context easily. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/15 "2011-07-09T04:04:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Since English is quite close to German one can often tell the context easily. English is quite close to German, yet you can’t read it? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/16 "2011-07-09T04:10:48Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > English is quite close to German, yet you can’t read it? Why yes. How many people can read Swedish or Norweigian for instance? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/17 "2011-07-09T04:16:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Why yes. How many people can read Swedish or Norweigian for instance? How many people who can’t read Swedish or Norwegian confidently assert that they understand the meaning and the purpose of a website that is written in Swedish or Norwegian? I mean, beside Swedish Erotica? ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/18 "2011-07-09T04:24:47Z")
I don’t see how that website is supposed to be glorifying the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/19 "2011-07-09T04:33:32Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > How many people who can’t read Swedish or Norwegian confidently assert that they understand the meaning and the purpose of a website that is written in Swedish or Norwegian? I mean, beside Swedish Erotica? Through cognates and pictures. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253/20 "2011-07-09T06:27:48Z")
[Leck mich am Arsch Mari.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQaTkEr2-4A) Mein Geld bekommst du nie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-german-songs/588253.md?page=2)