# A Question About "Goodfellas" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129 "2015-10-19T13:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/61 "2015-10-23T15:02:30Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > My question: I thought that Mafia wives were sacrosanct-you could whack a man, but you never hurt a woman. All that stuff about the Mafia code of honor was made up by Mario Puzo for his novel. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/62 "2015-10-23T15:09:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > All that stuff about the Mafia code of honor was made up by Mario Puzo for his novel. I think Scorcese wanted to counter some of that in _Goodfellas_ by showing that there really was no honor among thieves. Gangsters were just as much scumbags to other gangsters as they were to anyone else. (Of course, in _Goodfather II_ did some of that as well, with the murder of the hooker just to get something on the politician, and Michael having his own brother whacked.) ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/63 "2015-10-23T15:19:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Is it possible that the Mafia betrayed both Hill and Burke? they had their money, why not eliminate these troublemakers? Why would they betray them to the FBI when they had other tried and tested ways of disposing of troublemakers? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/64 "2015-10-23T15:20:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think Scorcese wanted to counter some of that in _Goodfellas_ by showing that there really was no honor among thieves. Yeah, I think that’s one of the principal—if not the principal—theme of _Goodfellas_. It debunks almost every notion of honor or romance or mystery or drama of the Mafia as imagined by _The Godfather_. These are brutish criminals leading brutish lives and making others suffer for their benefit until someone stops them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/65 "2015-10-23T15:23:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > (Of course, in _Goodfather II_ did some of that as well, with the murder of the hooker just to get something on the politician, and Michael having his own brother whacked.) I don’t know. That was wrapped up in the cloud of her being a prostitute who “has no family” so isn’t deserving of the consideration that more virtuous people deserve. It reflects a limit on the code of honor, but it might be seen as taking that code as an assumed base. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/66 "2015-10-23T15:53:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t know. That was wrapped up in the cloud of her being a prostitute who “has no family” so isn’t deserving of the consideration that more virtuous people deserve. It reflects a limit on the code of honor, but it might be seen as taking that code as an assumed base. If you wanted to preserve the fiction of self-imposed limits in the Mafia, you could come up with some justification by assuming that the hooker had done something that merited being whacked (stealing, dealing drugs without permission, ratting, whatever) and they just decided to kill two birds with one stone (so to speak). But since Coppola doesn’t provide a hint of justification for the murder other than to use it against the politician, I think the point is to shock you with the callousness of it. To them, the hooker is basically in the same category as the horse in the first movie. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/67 "2015-10-23T15:54:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > This prompts my other question: as a satellite gang, the Goddfellas had to pay the NY Mafia (headed by Paul Castellano) a cut of the $6 million Lufthansa heist. Is it possible that the Mafia betrayed both Hill and Burke? they had their money, why not eliminate these troublemakers? The participants in the Lufthansa Heist (Hill, Burke, etc.) were Lucchese associates, not Gambino associates. The Lucchese and Bonanno familes got a cut, not the Gambino. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/68 "2015-10-23T16:58:23Z")
Interestingly enough, Vincent Asaro, a former Bonanno captain, is on trial right now for racketeering because of his involvement in the Lufthansa heist. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/69 "2015-10-23T18:11:08Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Where’d you hear this??? It’s the first I’ve ever heard about this. One of his interviews with Howard Stern that I saw on Youtube. I think he said he was forced to do two when he was 16, and the third a little later. Sucks to think of a teenager being pressured into that kind of situation. ---
**Author:** ![Greekfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@Greekfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greekfreak)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/70 "2015-10-24T16:08:36Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And we did see Jimmy kill at least one woman (not a “Mafia wife, true”)–Belle, Morty’s wife. So not killing a woman doesn’t seem to apply to him. Not Belle, but Johnny Roastbeef’s missus/goomar. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/71 "2015-10-24T21:42:04Z")
The old “rules” of the Mafia/Black Hand were fairly limited. Solve problems within your local group, don’t blab about anything, etc. Killing to get ahead, regardless of who they were, became extremely common. The bloodshed really ramped up during prohibition and stayed that way well into the 1940s. People within a gang killed each other, anybody in fact, quite frequently. It was only with the establishment of The Commission that some rules were laid down to reduce the bloodshed. E.g., you can’t whack a made guy in another family without permission and such. Routinely ignored, of course. Ratting out a rival to the local corrupt cops was a standard tactic. But secretly. It was only starting in the 60s, first by Joseph Valachi, that open testimony became common. You have capos and even one boss turning Federal witnesses now. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129/72 "2015-10-25T19:15:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The participants in the Lufthansa Heist (Hill, Burke, etc.) were Lucchese associates, not Gambino associates. The Lucchese and Bonanno familes got a cut, not the Gambino. JFK Airport was [considered to be Gambino territory,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_heist#Planning) and thus the Gambinos were entitled to a tribute. This was also the case with the first (Air France) robbery in the movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-goodfellas/735129.md?page=3)