# A question about Hitler coming to power. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012 "2008-11-16T18:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/21 "2008-11-17T01:13:06Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > [nitpick] > > I’m fairly sure that Hitler himself was never elected to the Reichstag. Göring was elected to it in 1928 and acted as the party leader therein thereafter in his stead. > > [/nitpick] I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/22 "2008-11-17T09:27:29Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Hitler was not overly nuts by the standards of his time and place. (Although he did much to set the standards.) He was largely 'politically correct." A lot of German thought what AH was saying made perfect sense. Many more thought he was better than the alternatives. > > He was not a strange outrider, he represented a large segment of his society. Racist views were certainly very widespread among all advanced cultures. It was not like they did not exist in the UK or America. Most people did not know the exact extent of the barbarities, mainly because they did not want to know. It was just dismissed as “collateral and necessary damage”. Much like most Americans today have no clue of the atrocities which have taken place in Iraq and when they hear about them just consider them as “unintended but necessary collateral damage”. > [@](#): > > The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. > > - > - George Orwell As has been said, people will justify and rationalize pretty much anything if they can gain something. The notion that it was all Hitler’s fault and the German people were not responsible was a necessary fiction at the conclusion of the war or you would have to judge the entire German people for crimes. The allies correctly thought it was better to turn the page and start from scratch because punishing the German people after WWI only brought WWII. > [@](#): > > Sort of makes you wonder what beliefs we have the will be later thought barbaric. As I said, I believe the war in Iraq will be seen like that. It was naked aggression thinly disguised by the “threat of WMD” which is even less that Hitler claiming Germany had been attacked by Poland. At least Hitler was claiming an actual attack. The razing of Fallujah, Abu Ghraib and American bombing and war practices will be seen for the barbarities they are. The only reason they are ignored by the American people is that it is in their own interests to do so. If they were done by China the American people would be denouncing them like the Chinese were worse than Hitler. Another thing which I have no doubt our descendants will judge as barbaric is our immigration restrictions. Our thoughts that the poor people of the world have no right to share our wealth and they should stay where they belong. Theat we are entitled by birth to something they are not. I have no doubt this is immoral and will be seen that way in a few generations. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/23 "2008-11-17T13:09:26Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > During the Great Depression both Germany and the Soviet Union were going along a lot better than the rest of the world. I’m not sure what you’re implying – the Great Depression hammered Germany and wrecked its economy totally. It’s often said that [the economic collapse made Hitler’s rise possible](http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/begins.htm). ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/24 "2008-11-17T15:07:24Z")
I think that John Maynard Keynes predicted in **The Economic Consequences of the Peace** (Published in 1919) that the reparations levied against Germany after WWI would cause runaway inflation and may lead to desperate measures. The book ends with, > [@](#): > > “But who can say how much is endurable, or in what direction men will seek at last to escape from their misfortunes?” While there was no shortage of bigotry in the early 20th Century, Hitler was welcomed by the people of Germany at least partly because his party freed Germany from reparations and brought some level of prosperity, even in the face of the Depression. ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/25 "2008-11-17T16:39:53Z")
You can see how anybody can be elected President, and you can compare that with Hitler’s taking power. People are not elected because they are ‘best for the country’. They are elected because a larger group of an electorate like them and vote accordingly. Think to yourself: Why did I vote for my candidate in THIS election? I think that studies have indicated that the real reason that you’ve voted this way is because it’s the way that your parents voted. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/26 "2008-11-17T16:44:19Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > You can still see this today. Venezuela, the USA, Bolivia, and only a statistical anomaly saved Mexico a couple of years ago. (Canada must be doing well; they recently reformed a government that’s decidedly not populist in nature!) I’m not sure what you mean here. Could you explain? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/27 "2008-11-17T16:51:44Z")
Hitler got to be chancellor, because the president (the old, senile Paul von Hindenburg) was mentally incompetent. strangely, the officer corps of the german army distrusted and feared Hitler-these senior generals were sure that the Nazis would destroy Germany-and they had their own plans to do away with hitler. this included reching out to the British and French intelligence services. German army units (loyal to the generals) were poised to arrest local Nazi paramilitary forces. The key thing was Hitler’s invasion of the Rhineland: had the French Army stood up to Hitler, the generals woul have staged a coup-and WWII would NEVER have happened!:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/28 "2008-11-17T17:19:45Z")
Hitler did not invade the Rhineland. The area known as the Rhineland was made a demilitarized buffer zone on the western edge of Germany after WWI. It was placed under a League of Nations mandate. That mandate was scheduled to end in 1935. A vote was taken to see who would gain control. The inhabitants, who hated the French because of their treatment by the French during the mandate, voted to give control back to Germany. What Hitler did, in violation of the Versailles and Locarno treaties, was remilitarize, i.e., reintroduce German forces into the area in 1936. The French or British could have acted, without incurring charges of interfering with another sovereign nation’s territory, because another portion of the treaty allowed the Allies to intervene at will. The question thus becomes: what would have been possible for the Allies to realistically do at that point? Even if they had technicalities on their side, the only way to remove the German troops would have been to stage a full-scale invasion of the area. (Diplomatic protests obviously would have gotten them nowhere.) France had problems of its own at the time, and remember that the area hated them and had just kicked them out legally and officially. How would a full-scale invasion not be seen as an act of war that would have given Hitler all the cover he needed to justify any further actions? Now it’s true that this was all a gigantic bluff on Hitler’s part. The forces he slipped into the area were so tiny that they would easily have been overwhelmed. The German generals were not at all happy with the move, and a public retreat would have been disastrous, especially for Hitler. But nobody really knew that. The size of the army wasn’t readily apparent. The German people seemed to be overwhelmingly in favor, or at least that’s what the propaganda machine reported. The League of Nations had been specifically designed by the Allies to deal with internal situations like these. Invading armies were totally out of favor. Hindsight is wonderful. At the time, the picture was markedly different. You couldn’t go to war in the mid-1930s without the support of your people. Hitler had that. France didn’t. Yes, the success of his bluff and his triumph over the fears of his generals emboldened him for future provocations. Nobody in 1936 understood what that might mean, though. We only know by looking backward. Anybody who thinks differently can just tell me what’s going to happen in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/29 "2008-11-17T17:28:27Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Anybody who thinks differently can just tell me what’s going to happen in 2011. Cats and dogs living together, of course. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/30 "2008-11-17T17:31:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Cats and dogs living together, of course. Duh. Yeah, but only after a rain. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/31 "2008-11-17T18:02:29Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re implying – the Great Depression hammered Germany and wrecked its economy totally. It’s often said that [the economic collapse made Hitler’s rise possible](http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/begins.htm). The Great Depression did not last as long in Germany as it did in most of the west and was much shorter than the US because Germany was one of the first nations to go off the Gold Standard. Most of the economic collapse of Germany happened before what we think of as the Great Depression and was due to the inflation caused by the war reparations. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/32 "2008-11-17T18:31:22Z")
I think it’s just the opposite. Germany went off the gold standard right after WWI, for the simple reason that it no longer had enough gold to back a currency. However, the Weimar Republic reinstituted the gold standard after the hyperinflation of the early 1920s. As far as I can determine, Germany stayed on a gold standard until 1931, when it devalued the mark. A number of events helped lift the country from the economic ruin of the hyperinflation years, but Germany was still economically fragile. It got caught in the worldwide depression like everybody else, and being on the gold standard didn’t keep it from the instability that directly lead to the Nazi takeover of power. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/33 "2008-11-17T18:37:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Hitler did not invade the Rhineland. > > The area known as the Rhineland was made a demilitarized buffer zone on the western edge of Germany after WWI. It was placed under a League of Nations mandate. That mandate was scheduled to end in 1935. A vote was taken to see who would gain control. The inhabitants, who hated the French because of their treatment by the French during the mandate, voted to give control back to Germany. > > What Hitler did, in violation of the Versailles and Locarno treaties, was remilitarize, i.e., reintroduce German forces into the area in 1936. The French or British could have acted, without incurring charges of interfering with another sovereign nation’s territory, because another portion of the treaty allowed the Allies to intervene at will. > > The question thus becomes: what would have been possible for the Allies to realistically do at that point? Even if they had technicalities on their side, the only way to remove the German troops would have been to stage a full-scale invasion of the area. (Diplomatic protests obviously would have gotten them nowhere.) France had problems of its own at the time, and remember that the area hated them and had just kicked them out legally and officially. How would a full-scale invasion not be seen as an act of war that would have given Hitler all the cover he needed to justify any further actions? > > Now it’s true that this was all a gigantic bluff on Hitler’s part. The forces he slipped into the area were so tiny that they would easily have been overwhelmed. The German generals were not at all happy with the move, and a public retreat would have been disastrous, especially for Hitler. > > But nobody really knew that. The size of the army wasn’t readily apparent. The German people seemed to be overwhelmingly in favor, or at least that’s what the propaganda machine reported. The League of Nations had been specifically designed by the Allies to deal with internal situations like these. Invading armies were totally out of favor. > > Hindsight is wonderful. At the time, the picture was markedly different. You couldn’t go to war in the mid-1930s without the support of your people. Hitler had that. France didn’t. Yes, the success of his bluff and his triumph over the fears of his generals emboldened him for future provocations. Nobody in 1936 understood what that might mean, though. We only know by looking backward. > > Anybody who thinks differently can just tell me what’s going to happen in 2011. When the german army marched in to the Rhineland, they hadm(maybe) one armored brigade. against this trifling force, the french had 9 army divisions in Alsace-no more than 50 miles away. had the french responded with force, the puny german force would have been routed in short order! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/34 "2008-11-17T18:48:09Z")
Yes, that’s what I said. Now read all the stuff around that sentence for context. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/35 "2008-11-17T19:04:25Z")
> [@diggleblop](#): > > Did they not see him (Hitler) and his INSANE ass coming back in the day before he was elected? Was he not investigated or anything? Did people not know he was so racist and antisemitic? I mean, how the hell did a person like him become president, because there is no way in hell we could elect the grand wizard of the KKK in this day and age, right? > > . My sister is fluent in German and she says that Hitler’s speeches (the ones you see on Discovery that are being delivered to adoring crowds) are riddled with offensive racial slurs and overt anti-semitism. It wasn’t as though Hitler hadn’t been properly vetted and was secretly a closet racist…his radical views were right out in the open but in that culture at that time, it was accepatable, even admirable. There is a fascinating documentary on this subject called “The Seduction of a People”. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/36 "2008-11-17T19:48:19Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > …strangely, the officer corps of the german army distrusted and feared Hitler-these senior generals were sure that the Nazis would destroy Germany-and they had their own plans to do away with hitler… This is to be the subject of an upcoming movie, with Tom Cruise as the (comparatively) virtuous German general leading the plot to kill Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/37 "2008-11-17T20:31:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > This is to be the subject of an upcoming movie, with Tom Cruise as the (comparatively) virtuous German general leading the plot to kill Hitler. The Valkyrie assassination plot (the subject of the movie) comes later. It was in repsonse to the defeat at Stalingrad and a growing sense in the officer corps that that the war was lost. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/38 "2008-11-18T01:21:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean here. Could you explain? That was a response to **Deeg** ’s post, indicating “Never underestimate the power of people to fool themselves when their perceived prosperity is at stake.” In all of the countries that I’ve mentioned, the people have deceived themselves (or came precariously close to doing so) due to their prosperity being somehow threatened. Canada was mentioned as a contrary example due to their conservative (by their standards, not ours) government recently being reinstated, i.e., no prosperity being at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/39 "2008-11-18T03:38:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The area known as the Rhineland was made a demilitarized buffer zone on the western edge of Germany after WWI. It was placed under a League of Nations mandate. That mandate was scheduled to end in 1935. A vote was taken to see who would gain control. The inhabitants, who hated the French because of their treatment by the French during the mandate, voted to give control back to Germany. > > What Hitler did, in violation of the Versailles and Locarno treaties, was remilitarize, i.e., reintroduce German forces into the area in 1936. The French or British could have acted, without incurring charges of interfering with another sovereign nation’s territory, because another portion of the treaty allowed the Allies to intervene at will. You’ve got two regions confused together. The Rhineland was essentially all German territory west of the Rhine river. It had been occupied by western troops after WWI but they had all left by 1930 and the area was considered part of Germany and was under German political control. The only restriction was that Germany could not station any military troops in it. Hitler violated this restriction in 1936. The Saarland was a much smaller region governed under a League of Nations mandate, which essentially meant British and French control. As you noted, it voted to rejoin Germany in 1935. (It was placed under French control again after WWII and voted to rejoin Germany in 1955 as well.) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012/40 "2008-11-18T03:45:38Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > That was a response to **Deeg** ’s post, indicating “Never underestimate the power of people to fool themselves when their perceived prosperity is at stake.” > In all of the countries that I’ve mentioned, the people have deceived themselves (or came precariously close to doing so) due to their prosperity being somehow threatened. Canada was mentioned as a contrary example due to their conservative (by their standards, not ours) government recently being reinstated, i.e., no prosperity being at stake. I see. So people just thought that they preferred Obama to McCain? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-hitler-coming-to-power/473012.md?page=3)