A question about one aspect of the 2nd Amendment-and please read the OP before responding

Why do some folks believe that they can use guns to rebel against a tyrannical government?

Some time ago, a friend told me that’s why she and her husband had guns and went regularly to the firing range – if the government came for them, they wanted to be able to protect themselves.

Me: But, Anita, if the government really wants you, you’re not going to be able to prevent it. If they want you badly enough, they can send a tank down your street to get you.

Anita: But I can shoot at them and stop them.

Me: Stop a tank? No.

Anita: I can get all the neighbors together and we can all shoot at them!

Me: That won’t stop a tank.

Anita: So what do you think of the Bears this year?

Because the truth is, if the government comes for you, you’re not going to able to stop them The only weapons that could stop a tank (like a hand grenade or a bomb) are illegal.

Please read the OP. I am not trying to find out if rebelling will work or not. I am trying to find out if groups that previously espoused fighting against the tyranny of the federal government still do so.

I asked a consderpative here a few years ago if he thought a liberal-sided government would take away his guns.

He replied “This will blow your libtard mind: I don’t own any guns!”

I said “This libtard owns guns. Does that blow your mind?”

No response.

But if we didn’t have guns, then they wouldn’t need the tank! They could rule the world with a board with a nail in it! /s

That’s the underlying assumption that a lot of these people don’t realize, or don’t want to admit: The guns are just enough of a threat that, if you’re serious about not complying with government tyranny, they can’t just have a group of thugs drag you out of your house and beat you up. You can make them use enough force to just kill you outright.

The hope is, they’re not quite tyrannical enough to do that, and if they are, that this action is outrageous enough that your death will spark a general uprising.

And that’s why you don’t see anyone doing this just yet: the US hasn’t reached the point that people are willing to die to advance the cause.

Does that point actually exist, and does it matter if you support those the tyranny happens to?

These kind of questions come across like this to me…

The right wing don’t care care about fighting tyranny, and they never did! It was all bullshit! Personal freedom, the constitution, fighting tyranny, it was all a thin vinneer to cover over the fact they just wanted bad things to happen to people they don’t like.

Undetermined. All we can say is, if it does exist, it’s somewhere past where you are now.

Why wouldn’t they?

They have no intention of actually endangering themselves by fighting against tyranny. Espousing the idea is cheap, safe, and supports their desire to own guns.

I own a few guns. I do not belong to the NRA and cannot envision joining them unless they change a LOT. I do not want to have “the government” take my guns. I have not yet risen against the current tyranny. WTF am I waiting for? I don’t know.

The answer is that the groups that previous espoused fighting against the tyranny of the federal government are the tyranny of the federal government. Or at least, that’s what the Trump administration is assuming.

It’s referencing this Washington Post article, which is paywalled, but you should be able to get the gist in the free article above.

ICE plans $100 million recruitment push targeting gun shows, military fans - The Washington Post

But basically, ICE is saying, “Hey, do you guns rights guys want to be the tyrants?” Because they expect that they absolutely do.

It was a real thing in the past, state militias were also there to protect from the Feds over-reaching.

But the ACLU has come out “pro-gun” in several issues- most notably the insistence on Due process with a judge hearing for “red flag” laws. The ACLU has also sued the current administration many times.

And, we still arent in a “tyranny” yet, there are free elections. The NRA and those radical gun owners help to vote trump IN, so they are happy with his somewhat sorta kinda legal over-reaches. Besides, remember those are “single-issue” voters, and so far, with the exception of banning “bump stocks” this current administration hasnt done much to restrict what they consider to be “gun rights”.

So, since it certainly can be argued that we are NOT in a state of tyranny , nothing active should be expected. By anyone.

The ACLU files lawsuits, of course.

What is your definition of “tyranny”?

Clearly it exists in general. The Iranians are demostrating that this very month. They are now fed up enough with their ~50yo tyranny to die in significant quantities over putting an end to it. And largely lack the weapons to fight back even 10% as effectively as a typical well-armed US county.

If the tyrannical takeover of the USA proceeds far enough and endures long enough, we USAians will also reach that point. My personal opinion is that if the takeover succeeds, the “we’ve had enough” point is 30 or 40 years in the future from then. Not during the slide downwards towards tyranny where we are now.

As noted by others, most of the rhetoric about “The USA’s guns are to defend the citizenry against a tyrannical government” are not justified by constitutional history, are roughly post WW-II rationalizations, and are overwhelmingly a product of right-wing, not left-wing, thinking. As such, almost all the people who’ve been spouting that idea for the last ~75 years are quite pleased with how our experiment in tyranny-Lite is going so far.

It starts with no free elections. We still have our rights from the Bill of Rights . The fact we are posting here shows that.

Yes, trump is abusing his Executive powers, but the courts and Congress mostly agree that they are legal.

We just had free elections and in 10 months we will have more. Hopefully voting the MAGAs out of Congress. We will see then.

Did you want to derail your own thread?

Moderating:

How to Reply as a linked Topic

Click Reply, in the upper left corner of the reply window is the reply type button, looks like a curving arrow point to the right.

Choose Reply as linked topic and it starts a new thread. As an example, you can choose GD, IMHO or The Pit for it.

That is actually the best method.

I’m going to try to answer this, as best I can, with minimal reference to historical movements, but I think this is only possible in context.

Full disclosure, but as I’ve said in many other threads, I’m a liberal in my voting (because the evil is so obvious) but I do own guns, and have a valid CCW for another few years.

But first, I don’t generally approve of “it is said by many”, but I’ll acknowledge that in this case, it’s a common refrain on some of the gun boards I ghost, so I’ve had ample anecdotal evidence of it to be so.

Moving on though, we get to some of the nitty gritty that I think needs historical review (not originality though)

I do not think that any gun rights groups have seriously entertained this position, except as @Horatius points out, as a resistance to “leftist” political efforts to restrain some gun owner’s rights to a firearm. Period. Oh sure, there is also a huge correlation in their desires to prevent the left from enforcing laws against bigotry, racism, and the like, so they want to keep the guns to somehow enforce (American Individualism again!) their rights to be petty jerks with violence.

And of course, as has come up in so many of these threads, they’re totally against rising up against tyranny if it’s the wrong people rising up. For a easy-read on the subject:

But we can dig deeper if needed. Now, IMHO, there’s a lot of modern efforts to defend against this POV, much like in saying “blue lives matter” that it was in favor of some “greater good” and NOT targeted, but I very much disagree.

So, ignoring originalist POV, there wasn’t evidence of a universal desire to resist government tyranny at least in the 60s.

I’d also say that most modern guns rights groups exist primarily as political shills - especially given the multiple investigations, lawsuits, and scandals of the last decade or so, the NRA at a bare minimum existed to raise money on this wedge issue, ideology aside, and funnel to themselves. Others do exist, but they’ve had their own conflicts with the administration, and historically it’s the NRA that matters most.

So, again, IMHO, the most major (or at least well known, and certainly major in the modern era) guns rights advocates are more echoing their constituents than anything else. They have a flow of money, influence, and soft power that is fed by individual gun owner’s fear of losing their guns or being held accountable (see my many rants about gun ownership having both rights and responsibilities and that many gun owners forget about the second part!) for their behavior.

Now, will there be a point where gun rights groups advocate against the current administrations tyranny? Well, there are some rumblings, but, cynically, it’s only because their sacred calf is getting gouged.

A recent (NOV2025) alert by Gun Owners of America (which I think would qualify as a gun’s rights group) included this:

Attorney General Pam Bondi and the DOJ have a trick up their sleeve: they want Firearms Policy Coalition and Second Amendment Foundation’s membership lists, all under the guise of “protecting” their members in a recent lawsuit. Thankfully, FPC and SAF refused to comply.

But this is alarming.

When the government has a list of people who belong to gun rights organizations, they effectively have a list of gun owners, which is the very start of a national registry. And we all know a registry can – and will – lead to confiscation.

It’s only a matter of time before the DOJ tries to exert its influence on GOA and attempts to obtain our membership list (which they’ll NEVER receive).

So it’s possible but IMHO very unlikely that the groups involve will actually take up arms against the tyranny. For many, especially self-organized militias, agree with the specific tyranny being enacted, and figure it’ll never happen to them. Note that this alert shifts blame to Pam Bondi and the faceless “DOJ” rather than Trump. Good Czar, bad boyars and the like.

And as it doesn’t seem to be the point of the thread, I’ll leave out the excluded middle of liberal gun owners who don’t get much news, or the upswing in POC and women buying guns against the backlash of police shootings of people in their own homes and rampant racism, etc. but it’s a real thing.

So TL;DR - Some do hold it true, but the majority probably only want to protect their “rights” to grift, threaten, or kill those who would hold them accountable. Some are talking about concerns with the current administration, but even then in the most deferential way possible to Trump, AND while using it to grift (see the link).

I will point out that the path to true tyranny has nearly always included confiscating the guns.

Mussolini, Franco, and others.

If Bondi, trump et all start mass gun confiscations, they likely will take up arms.

Right now, we have a sort of “tyranny of the majority”- the GOP controls Congress and the White House and is making stuff go their way. This has happened before.

So, right now, not a true tyranny so no reason to take up arms. yet.

For most of my life, I’ve been more afraid of my fellow citizens than I have the government. (No, I’m not really all that scared of my fellow citizens. Most people are fairly decent.) While I do believe an individual has a right to own a firearm for self-defense, my belief wasn’t predicated on the importance of fighting a tyrannical government, but rather the right of a person to protect themselves from any threat. Despite being pro-2nd Amendment, I’ve never really quite fit in with that crowd.

For a moment, let’s just argue the 2nd Amendment exists to help prevent tyranny, as the other Amendments in the Bill or Rights supposed to do. We have a significant number of government officials and voters who decided they’d ignore the Constitution, established laws, and customs. These are people who are fine with tyranny when their enemies are getting hurt. Or at the very least they’re indifferent to the suffering of others.

I was a member of the NRA until the early 2000s. I let my membership lapse because I was tired of their fearmongering and figured they were more interested in fundraising than they were in protecting the rights of gun owners. Most of the victories the pro-gun side saw in the last 25+ years didn’t result from efforts of the NRA.

Yes, I hold this to be true.

What tyranny? Well, just that… tyranny.

We (collectively) have arms in an effort to defend ourselves against anyone, or anything, who infringes on our inalienable rights.

Does that include ICE goons breaking down your, or your neighbors’, doors?