I think that when the squad originally captured SBW the reason that they wanted to kill him was based more on revenge then anything else, though practicality did enter into it.
Not only had their mate been killed in an insignificant skirmish, but they were all well pissed off being sent on a"propaganda mission for the home front", which to save one soldiers life they were all being put at very considerable risk to their own lives.
If the mission had been to take out a runway, or a particulary annoying piece of Anti aircraft Artillery they probably wouldn’t have been so coldly angry at the loss of the medic and the threat to their own lives.
That said they would almost certainly killed SBW out of expediency.
The Captain did’nt prevent them from performing the execution for fear of comitting a war crime but because he was suffering from what we now call PTSS, but was then called (I believe )Combat Fatigue.
He could still fight and kill like an elite soldier in hot blood, but not witness a necessary killing in cold blood.
I’m not 100%, but I think it was called “Battle Fatigue.”
Regarding Upham and SBW, I always figured that the rest of the troop was wanting to kill SBW as a gut-reaction to Wade being killed. Upham argued vehemently for SBW to be released. If you recall, this was also around the time when Reiben is about ready to desert the mission and, by extension, the army altogether. Reiben and Horvath have their disagreement, and almost come to blows, then bullets.
Miller defuses the situation by telling them what he did for a living in the states. I think that Upham’s impassioned pleas worked on Miller’s softer, romantic nature. I think Miller knew that he SHOULDN’T leave SBW alive. But talking about his past made Miller realize that this German soldier, in essence, was a lot like Miller himself: He’s just doing what he’s ordered to do because he wants the war to be over, and he wants to go home to his family.
Upham’s the movie’s conscience. And while doing the right thing (ie, acting with a clear conscience) helps you sleep at night, it can also be the absolute worst thing you can do, long-term.
I’m not sure I agree. Willie surrendered. That makes him a POW and subject to protection as a prisioner. Lacking the ability to guard a prisoner, they let him go - clearly on the condition that he march into captivity: he ‘gave his parole’. Instead, he rejoins his comrades, and proceeds to fight again. Under the Geneva Convention, of course, a POW is not supposed to be punished for escaping and rejoining his army - but soldiers in the field may have a different view of the matter, where the surrender, escape and re-surrender all occur in the same battle.
While we can’t know Upham’s motives for sure, I always assumed he was mostly just pissed off that, having saved the guy’s life, he broke his word and failed to surrender. When he surrendered again, the thought process may well have been ‘we trusted you the first time’.
That’s exactly the conclusion I had after seeing the movie the first time. Upham felt that SW had betrayed him, and this was on top of all the other “betrayals” he had suffered: Soldiers don’t fight out of brotherhood and sometimes the good guys have to act like the bad guys.
Remember that at some point, Tom Hanks announces to a guy that all his brothers are dead but it turns out it’s the wrong Ryan? The wrong Ryan is non other than Captain Malcom Reynolds.
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Steamboat Willie was supposed to surrender himself to an Allied unit and become a POW. Instead he is found with the attacking Germans. It’s possible that he ran into a unit of Germans on his way to turn himself in, but it’s more likely that he waited until he was out of sight, then found his way back to his army.
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Which in fairness, who wouldn’t? Especially when you have no idea if the enemy troops you encounter are going to take you prisoner or just shoot you dead.
I could have sworn that the battle ended with a column of Allied armor showing up. I just now realized that what I was remembering were the German tanks showing up. :smack: So that does significantly change the calculus of the scene.
Following the links, I see that you’re right. Wow, they sure look alike in the context of the movie. I wonder what possessed Spielberg to make them look so similar; it’s very confusing.
A few minutes later there are what appears to be fresh US soldiers running to the battle, but by then the Germans have all retreated. It’s definitely the planes that chase off the Germans.
The shooting is still illegal though - we’ve discussed this several times in the past. If Upham had just shot the German soldiers as they ran away, he’d have been perfectly correct in doing so - soldiers aren’t cops, and a soldier has no duty to give enemies a chance to surrender (especially if he’s outnumbered 6 to 1). Once he did give them a chance, and they did surrender, he had no legal right to shoot any of them, unless they gave some indication they were going to resume combat against him.
And the one armed Colonel in the personnel office at the beginning of the movie who first discovers the brothers have all died is Hal from Malcolm in the Middle.
Quite possibly no one had any idea until all the filming was done - the guy who killed Mellish was filmed entirely in studio, while Steamboat Willie’s scenes were all outdoor shots. Could have been weeks apart.
At 4:07, Mellish says something which I can’t hear. Anyone have any idea?
Also, he starts crying at that moment, any interpretation as to what he’s crying about? Just nerves? Seeing a HY knife having that much effect on him? Something else?
I’d read Kenneth Sandford’s “Mark of the Lion: The Story of Charles Upham VC and Bar” when I was a kid and it left a lasting impression.
Having the character called Upham niggled at my suspension of disbelief – not to suggest in any way that the name is unique… but it still niggled a bit, which I guess is just normal if you strongly associate a particular name with a specific person.
(Similar thing for me with Jurassic Park, and the big game hunter named “Robert Muldoon” – the same name as a famous, or infamous, ex-PM of NZ).
Hey, everybody makes the mistake. I did it too. Actually I think the movie makes more sense if you think that it is Steamboat Willy in all the scenes. Definitely a big fumble from Spielberg here, no way in hell people didnt make the confusion when he was still in the editing phase.
But IMO Saving Private Ryan is so full of cheese that one more slice doesnt piss me off that much.