# A question about the anti-christ and anti-christians. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032 "2006-05-16T22:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/1 "2006-05-16T22:09:47Z")
Is anyone familiar enough with revelations and the end-time prophesies to give me a quick summary? I vaguely remember that the great deceiver will convince the majority of believers to fall under his spell and dupe them into doing his bidding to bring about war and armageddon. Does anyone have more details of this particular aspect? Thanks ItS r~ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/2 "2006-05-16T22:37:10Z")
The [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antichrist) might give you the quick summary you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/3 "2006-05-17T09:39:54Z")
Paul’s Second Letter to the Thessalonian Christians, Chapter 2 warns of the Man of Sin/Lawlessness who will deify himself until he is defeated by the returning Jesus. John’s Revelation, Chapter 13 tells of a Sea-Beast who conquers the world with the help of the Land-Beast, who exalts the Sea-Beast, enforces worship of it & mandates the Mark of the Beast. Daniel, Chapters 7, 8, 11, provide background symbolism used by Paul and John. Basically, futurist Bible teachers have generally regarded the Anti-Christ power as having a political-military and a religious-economic aspect, with two individuals leading each aspect, usually called “The Beast” or “The Anti-Christ” (the Sea-Beast) and “The False Prophet” (the Land-Beast). I have also heard teachers who regarded the Sea-Beast as the Imperial System and the Land-Beast as the individual who runs it, or even depersonalized the Land-Beast into the Religious System (also perhaps the Harlot Babylon of Revelation 17, a parody of the Bridal Church of Christ of Revelation 12, 21-22). ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/4 "2006-05-17T18:24:40Z")
And his name is going to be Nicolae Carpathia. :wally ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/5 "2006-05-17T20:44:10Z")
I thank you for your answers and for any further clarifications. [joking] I guess we will have to wait until after Armageddon to find out where Bush, Cheney and Rove fit in. [/joking} ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/6 "2006-05-19T18:16:08Z")
As I understand it, as used in the NT, the term “Anti-Christ” does not mean “one who opposes Christ” but “one who stands in the place of Christ”, or a “false Christ,” a pretender; and there can be more than one. Presumably it could apply to anyone who claims to speak on spiritual matters “with authority” as Jesus did, even if such a person does not claim to be Jesus. The word is not used in the Book of Revelation – the evil ruler there is called only “the Beast.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/7 "2006-05-19T18:23:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As I understand it, as used in the NT, the term “Anti-Christ” does not mean “one who opposes Christ” but “one who stands in the place of Christ”, or a “false Christ,” a pretender; and there can be more than one. Presumably it could apply to anyone who claims to speak on spiritual matters “with authority” as Jesus did, even if such a person does not claim to be Jesus. The word is not used in the Book of Revelation – the evil ruler there is called only “the Beast.” Wow. Wouldn’t that apply to every preacher that ever lived? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/8 "2006-05-19T18:36:48Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Wow. Wouldn’t that apply to every preacher that ever lived? No . . . they claim to be interpeting Jesus’ words and commands. But Jesus claimed the authority to pronounce new doctrines entirely on his own. > [@](#): > > “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ **But I tell you,** do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.” (Matthew 5:38-42, NIV) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/9 "2006-05-19T18:46:35Z")
The word “antichrist” does not appear in Revelation. “Antichrists” (plural) is a word found only in the Epistles of John and it refers to apostate Christians. The word “antichrist” is often conflated with the “Beast” of Revelation but they are different entities. The Beast was a code word for the Roman Emperor. The figure called the “son of perdition” who will “set himself up as God” in 2 Thessalonians ( which is not generally believed to be an authentic letter of Paul’s) was probably another reference to the practice of Roman Emperors to deify themselves. The popular concept of a Satanic, supernatural figure who will take over the world at the Endtimes is not really in the Bible but is a product of imaginative inference, conflation of unrelated passage, individual theories and pop culture. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/10 "2006-05-20T03:00:54Z")
BTW, what does the thread title mean by “anti-christians”? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/11 "2006-05-20T14:16:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, what does the thread title mean by “anti-christians”? From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7400010) other thread: (all quotes from **rwjefferson** ) > [@](#): > > There are only two choices, you will respond either as anti-christian (deny peaceful pursuit on account of sin), or as christian (help secure peace in spite of sin). It matters not what you call yourself, or whether you believe jesus is god. > > If christian is defined as a follower of the christ, most that believe in the divinity jesus are not. > [@](#): > > If christian is defined as one that holds the spirit of the christ, they are christian; no matter their path. That does not mean they are not also whatever faith they profess. The path is secondary to the destination. It can only be insulting in that the pseudo-christians have given christianity a bad name. > > I would be honored to be considered a member of any faith that held the same spirit as the christ. It is not the word that defines christian, it is the spirit. > > Please tell me what you do not understand about the concept that anti-christians persecute sinners, and christians do not. Anti-christians are not christian; no matter the claim. > [@](#): > > Pseudo-christians idolize the word and the flesh at the expense of the spirit. That is why they persecute and kill. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/12 "2006-05-20T14:21:44Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7400010) other thread: (all quotes from **rwjefferson** ) Defensible POV, perhaps (if you leave out that “peaceful pursuit” crap :rolleyes: ), but it has nothing whatsoever to do with any concept of an “antichrist” in the NT. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/13 "2006-05-20T19:04:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Defensible POV, perhaps (if you leave out that “peaceful pursuit” crap :rolleyes: ), but it has nothing whatsoever to do with any concept of an “antichrist” in the NT. I thought that, too. I’m not sure whether rwjefferson is directly linking the Biblical version with his/her beliefs, or if it’s a seperate term, but either way it’s a mite confusing. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/14 "2006-05-20T21:28:47Z")
I would think, just from the plain meaning of the words, that: Christ:Antichrist :: Pope:Antipope. I am also glad that this board does not have an Antichrist smiley. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/15 "2006-05-20T21:34:13Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I would think, just from the plain meaning of the words, that: > > Christ:Antichrist :: Pope:Antipope. Right. An antipope is a pretender to the papacy, not an enemy of it. Martin Luther was not an antipope. ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/16 "2006-05-22T12:47:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, what does the thread title mean by “anti-christians”? anti : against; opposing. christ : holy spirit (greek derivation). christian : a follower of the holy spirit. Mankind is forever plagued by “pharisees”. You will recognize them by their sin of pride in their “literal word” interpretation of their bible (holy book). “Their” literal word interpretation is probably closer to the truth. I find it more often a futile attempt to explain higher and enlightened concepts like metaphor or allegory or parable to this kind. [secret code] I find it better to learn and use a tongue that even they might someday understand. Most can at least be trained. ```auto Their spirit and kind are easily found in any line that calls for casting of stony words at other sinners. They are especially prone to fling at those whose sins they personally consider abomination. Yet they all commit idolatry from their towers of [southern drawl] bible [/drawl]. Most will mix cotton and wool and many will still eat shellfish or pork. In contrast, consider the passion of jesus. Jesus embodies the ultimate samaritan: the holy spirit manifest in flesh. He stood up and gave up his life for others; no matter the sin. Any that call for persecution of sinners are clearly his opposite and enemy. Pharisees are anti-christian in spirit; no matter the name; no matter the claim. I see no reason to question whether we are even now careening rapidly toward “armegeddon”. I only wonder what it will finally take for US intelligent citizens to unite and stand against today’s pharisees and tyrants; to understand and accept and believe what jesus revealed two millennia ago; to put into practice the spirit of government (some of) our founding fathers declared over two centuries ago. The followers of the beast are those that would persecute sinners. Those that would also covet (the holy) land; are marked as land beast. beast : dEvil personified. covet : to threaten peace for desire. idolatry : the belief that certain symbols (including letters and words) give authority to persecute sinners. pharisee : one that persecutes sinners in name of morals or law [syn]: anti-christian, tyrant sin : an alleged affront against god. Consider now the mark of the sea beast: a domination of the sea that excludes known sinners from its vessels and forces. anti-christian (def): one condones the persecution of (other) sinners ItS r~ ``` ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/17 "2006-05-22T12:52:23Z")
Consider now the question - Are we in for another round of “words mean what **rwjefferson** says they mean, not what the accepted definitions are”? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/18 "2006-05-22T17:25:35Z")
> [@Papermache Prince](#): > > Consider now the question - > > Are we in for another round of “words mean what **rwjefferson** says they mean, not what the accepted definitions are”? Hey, I’m amazed he held off till just now. On the other hand, thank you! ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/19 "2006-05-22T20:29:27Z")
> [@Papermache Prince](#): > > Are we in for another round of “words mean what **rwjefferson** says they mean, not what the accepted definitions are”? When I use words, they indeed mean exactly what I say they mean. > [@FriarTed](#): > > Hey, I’m amazed he held off till just now. As I said, pharisees take pride in “their” literal translations and definitions. r~ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032/20 "2006-05-22T20:35:35Z")
> [@rwjefferson](#): > > When I use words, they indeed mean exactly what I say they mean. Worked for Humpty Dumpty . . . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-anti-christ-and-anti-christians/357032.md?page=2)