# A Question About the Economics of Book Signings **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 3, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646 "2009-06-03T23:00:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/21 "2009-06-11T00:17:04Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > In many cases, book stores receive books from the publishing house on a sale or return basis. Bookstores can always return unsold books. ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/22 "2009-06-11T02:41:53Z")
From my days in the business, the author escorts I knew all cited Jeffrey Archer as the worst they’d had to work with–this was with great glee after he got sent to the slammer. If I recall the story, the first thing he said to one escort as she met him at the airport was, “Don’t speak to me unless you’re spoken to.” And then he started walking. And as for returnability, that’s not entirely the case, but generally so. Some wholesalers who buy from the publisher and sell to the retailer will limit returns to a certain percentage, say 15% of the total business the retailer does the with the wholesaler. But in the case of a book signing, the retailer is always buying directly from the publisher, fully returnable. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/23 "2009-06-11T02:51:49Z")
Returns are not quite as simple as all that. Hardback and trade paperbacks can be returned, and then can be remaindered or sold back to the author. Mass market paperbacks are not returned, per se; the covers are sent back and the books themselves are pulped. A few publishers challenge the return system. Most attempts fail, but there is usually at least one at any time. This all assumes that the books come from a standard publisher. Most (not all) self-published and PoD books are not returnable, which is why large chains like B&N won’t carry them. Unless they are from local authors, which they make exceptions for. Large bookstores also have lots of other book-like objects for sale, like crossword puzzle books, graphic novels, and textbooks. These will come with their own set of rules and restrictions. And I’ve heard of signed books being returned to the publisher. It never used to happen, but apparently it’s become more frequent, at least anecdotally. ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/24 "2009-06-11T03:39:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Returns are not quite as simple as all that. Hardback and trade paperbacks can be returned, and then can be remaindered or sold back to the author. Mass market paperbacks are not returned, per se; the covers are sent back and the books themselves are pulped. A few publishers challenge the return system. Most attempts fail, but there is usually at least one at any time. > > This all assumes that the books come from a standard publisher. Most (not all) self-published and PoD books are not returnable, which is why large chains like B&N won’t carry them. Unless they are from local authors, which they make exceptions for. > > Large bookstores also have lots of other book-like objects for sale, like crossword puzzle books, graphic novels, and textbooks. These will come with their own set of rules and restrictions. > > And I’ve heard of signed books being returned to the publisher. It never used to happen, but apparently it’s become more frequent, at least anecdotally. Don’t disagree with any of that, just thought it was info not relevant to the issue at hand. By the way, **Exapno** , bet I’ve ripped more covers off mass market paperbacks than you have! ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/25 "2009-06-11T14:19:56Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Large bookstores also have lots of other book-like objects for sale, like crossword puzzle books, graphic novels, and textbooks. And magazines… but aren’t all of those things usually returnable, too? I ask because there has been a trend in my field to publish annuals as magazines rather than books. The distribution channels are different, which seems to be a disadvantage in many respects, but if it means they’re not returnable then I guess I see the incentive. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/26 "2009-06-11T16:44:38Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > Don’t disagree with any of that, just thought it was info not relevant to the issue at hand. By the way, **Exapno** , bet I’ve ripped more covers off mass market paperbacks than you have! Actually, your post wasn’t there when I started writing. I was responding to those above you. Could I actually tear the cover off a live, screaming book? I’m not sure. I’m a curmudgeon, dammit, not a sadist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/27 "2009-06-11T16:49:36Z")
Nothing pained my sister the bookstore owner, a bibliophile if there ever was one, more than tearing the covers off books before they were pulped. Broke her heart every time. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/28 "2009-06-11T21:46:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Nothing pained my sister the bookstore owner, a bibliophile if there ever was one, more than tearing the covers off books before they were pulped. Broke her heart every time. I can sympathize with that. In college, I wouldn’t even highlight or underline in my textbooks. I worked for the university bookstore and made out with a quite a few books after the covers were torn off. I still have some of them and they still look like new (except for the missing cover) after more than a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/29 "2009-06-11T22:00:25Z")
I went to the McGovern signing last week, incidentally, and it was well attended. The bookstore is I think the last surviving privately owned one in town (other than Christian and college bookstores) and is in an old house. McGovern was in the largest room (what I’ll guess was once the living room) and he’s a well preserved, though not spectacularly so, 86 year old (i.e. he seems very sharp and agile for his age but if you didn’t know him you wouldn’t be surprised to learn he’s 86). He gave a talk of sorts about Lincoln but because of the crowd and the lack of a PA system I couldn’t hear it well enough to know what he said other than evidently he was for him. However, while waiting for the talk to end I looked around the shop and found several discount books, especially on local history, that I bought, so in addition to the two copies of the McGovern book I bought to have signed ($44) I bought about $50 of other items. I’d guesstimate that they easily sold a couple hundred of the McGovern books, and whatever else people bought (and I suspect many were like me and never go there- it’s in an older part of town that’s not convenient to anything save some restaurants and bars that I only go to occasionally and when I do it’s night or weekend and the bookstore is closed). So, as PR for the bookstore, which I’ll definitely go back to at some point, it may have paid for itself in sales but it was definitely a huge success as advertisement, because I’ve passed by the place many times but haven’t been inside in many years if I ever have been. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/30 "2009-06-11T22:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Book tours do not make money in terms of books sold at signings. Their purpose is to get local publicity, encourage fans, spread word of mouth, and do nice for the bookstores. I was told the same thing Exapno says: book tours exist because some local media won’t interview an author unless he or she is actually in town, because they make bookstores happy, because readers are more likely to notice your existence if there’s a big poster of you in store for a week or two, because the stock copies you signed are likely to get better placement and sell better after you leave… They’re for the side benefits, not the straight-up book sales. As far as I can tell, no one has the first clue whether it’s anywhere near worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/31 "2009-06-12T10:26:07Z")
Literary agent Colleen Lindsay tries to break down the economics [here](http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2008/09/pimpin-your-book-economics-of-average.html). ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/32 "2009-06-12T10:40:51Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The only other one who I remember was the British author Jeffrey Archer. I love his books (_First Among Equals_ is a particular favorite of mine) and short stories, but by widespread agreement he’s a demanding, arrogant, pushy asshole when he’s touring. One of the bookstore owners who had the misfortune of dealing with him said she was glad when he went to prison for perverting the course of justice: [Jeffrey Archer - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Archer) I too think his books are a good read, but his reputation is of a demanding, arrogant, pushy asshole (even when he’s not touring!). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/33 "2009-06-12T20:26:17Z")
I have to register disagreement here: I think Archer’s books are terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/34 "2009-06-13T04:52:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Actually, your post wasn’t there when I started writing. I was responding to those above you. > > Could I actually tear the cover off a live, screaming book? I’m not sure. I’m a curmudgeon, dammit, not a sadist. 😃 Well, it’s tough to tear one cover off, but we were confronted with several thousand every month. Then it’s easy. We’d have races–how many covers in a minute? And when we were done, we’d have a couple, three, four dumpsters full every month of ripped paperbacks. We’d send them up to the shipping dock, and let the staff know they were there so they could find things they wanted before the trash guys came. It’s the best thing about having been in the business. The best, though, is that I now have a library that includes almost a thousand mysteries that I’ve read at least once and decided were worth keeping. I can start and if I read one a day, it would take more than three years to read though just them. All the Spensers, all the Matt Scudders and Bernie Rhodenbarrs, all the Colin Dexters, etc, etc. Not to mention all the Travis McGees. And plenty of less well knowns, when only a few of the series are worth keeping. ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646/35 "2009-06-13T04:55:31Z")
Let me amend myself. For me the best thing in the business was the folks I worked with. Book folks are good folks, by and large. My library is the best thing left when one’s no longer in the business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-economics-of-book-signings/498646.md?page=1)