# A question about the film The Prestige (major, jumbo spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340 "2010-05-04T23:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/1 "2010-05-04T23:08:08Z")
Room to breathe… . . . . . . . . . . . . . … . … . . I love this movie. Pretty much all of Nolan’s work is gold, but this one gets better every time. But one question: When Danton did the final engagement _specifically_ for 100 shows, why did he choose 100? Was there any significance to it or was it just an angle to really through Borden off? Make him so crazy he couldn’t resist? That’s my theory, but I wasn’t sure. But here’s another wrinkle. How did Danton know when NOT to appear in the balcony? When Borden finally fell for his trap, Danton did NOT perform the Prestige of the act. Was that the 100th show and he knew Borden would bite? Did I miss something? Ok. That’s more than one question. But, you get my point. How did Danton know when to not appear and was it related to the number 100? Feel free to generally discuss the film as well. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/2 "2010-05-04T23:21:46Z")
Can’t really answer your question, as it’s been too long since I’ve seen it and can’t go into that level of detail. So I’ll just say…what a cool movie. Two magicians, both working on the same trick, each approaching it in the most outlandishly impossible way. 1. I know…I’ll instantaneously duplicate myself, then commit suicide! 2. I know…I’ll keep the fact that I have a twin brother a secret through my entire life! I’ll even chop off my finger!! Sure. ok. :rolleyes: But that’s why I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/3 "2010-05-05T00:25:19Z")
I assumed that’s how much disposal space he could manage for the bodies. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/4 "2010-05-05T00:41:11Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > But here’s another wrinkle. How did Danton know when NOT to appear in the balcony? When Borden finally fell for his trap, Danton did NOT perform the Prestige of the act. > > Was that the 100th show and he knew Borden would bite? Did I miss something? I assume someone just told him that Borden was in the audience. As for the 100, it was stagecraft – a limited engagement. I don’t think it was established the final performance was the 100th. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/5 "2010-05-05T00:50:04Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Can’t really answer your question, as it’s been too long since I’ve seen it and can’t go into that level of detail. So I’ll just say…what a cool movie. Two magicians, both working on the same trick, each approaching it in the most outlandishly impossible way. > > 1. I know…I’ll instantaneously duplicate myself, then commit suicide! > > 2. I know…I’ll keep the fact that I have a twin brother a secret through my entire life! I’ll even chop off my finger!! > > Sure. ok. :rolleyes: But that’s why I love it. The whole movie is basically about obsession so, I don’t think any :rolleyes: is needed. Just like the old magician at the beginning who has been posing as being crippled for most of his life just to do one trick. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/6 "2010-05-05T03:35:36Z")
I remember watching it and thinking… this is a twist? I had no problem spotting the heavily disguised Christian Bale. I was actually a bit miffed at the camera cuts during Bale’s trick. They shoulda invested in the CGI to make it a single shot so the jaded modern movie audience would have a moment of “huh?” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/7 "2010-05-05T03:39:16Z")
Maybe I’m a sucker, but I totally didn’t recognize Christian Bale as the assistant. At one point, I thought it was a cameo from Teller of Penn & Teller. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/8 "2010-05-05T13:11:36Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I assume someone just told him that Borden was in the audience. > > As for the 100, it was stagecraft – a limited engagement. I don’t think it was established the final performance was the 100th. But Borden had been in the audience before. He saw the trap door, and he’d indicated he’d been in the audience several times to try to discover the trick. I tend to agree with your second sentence. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I remember watching it and thinking… this is a twist? I had no problem spotting the heavily disguised Christian Bale. I was actually a bit miffed at the camera cuts during Bale’s trick. They shoulda invested in the CGI to make it a single shot so the jaded modern movie audience would have a moment of “huh?” I hate to hear that, because that REALLY ruined the film for you, I imagine. I’ll cop to totally missing Bale as the assistant. Even when he teared up at the end when hanging Bale said a good bye! I’m usually the guy who figures plots out, but I recall thinking that if they wanted that scene to be emotional, they should have beefed up that guy’s role and had someone famous play him. Egg meet face. They so minimized his character that it was a typical slight of hand. The trick is out in the open, but you’re looking at something else. I recall being disappointed at the time that they used science fiction as the solution for Danton’s trick. But it’s not like they didn’t warn us from the opening scene. Over the years, it has become actually a plus. Add in some Michael Caine and you’ve got a classic. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/9 "2010-05-05T13:22:28Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Add in some Michael Caine and you’ve got a classic. Amusingly, Caine also has a twist movie to his credit, _Sleuth_:In the first act, his character is killed off (as far as the audience knows) and Caine returns for the second act, heavily disguised and fake-accented, but anyone who’d seen Caine later in his career would recognize him immediately, so the twist that he’s playing the same character from the first act (not killed at all) is somewhat mitigated. When I first saw the movie, sometime in the mid-nineties, I just figured Caine was playing _two_ characters in a bit of stunt casting, but contemporary audiences in 1972 were led to believe “Police Inspector Doppler” in the second act was played by an actor named “Alec Cawthorne” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/10 "2010-05-05T13:24:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I remember watching it and thinking… this is a twist? I had no problem spotting the heavily disguised Christian Bale. I was actually a bit miffed at the camera cuts during Bale’s trick. They shoulda invested in the CGI to make it a single shot so the jaded modern movie audience would have a moment of “huh?” Funny thing–I completely missed the disguised Bale, but I remember thinking that the reveal of the other magician’s trick was disappointing because it seemed to me it had been telegraphed almost from the beginning. Still loved the movie though. Two different ways two people can be one person. Since my dissertation deals in part with philosophical issues surrounding the possibility of [personal fissions (and fusions)](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/#Fis) this film was like brain candy for me. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/11 "2010-05-05T13:36:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Amusingly, Caine also has a twist movie to his credit, _Sleuth_ As an aside, I saw the play when it first opened in London and the playbill (“programme?”) contained head shots and lengthy biographies for the actors who were playing Inspector Doppler and others. Added to the “Whaaa…?” moment. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/12 "2010-05-05T14:31:08Z")
I still think I’m missing the mechanics of the sci-fi trick of Hugh Jackman. He kills his duplicate self at each performance. Got that. But I still don’t see how that gives him enough time to run all the way up to the top balcony. It seems you’re only gaining a couple seconds over NOT duplicating yourself and dying. When does he have time to run up there? And my take on the 100 engagements thing was that he could only stand to kill himself for a finite amount of times. And, FWIW, I figured out the Christian Bale twin thing very early on, and I’m usually very studiously NOT trying to figure things out in order to let the plot happen to me. But in this case, it seemed so obvious that they were purposely hiding the identity of this person for no good reason. So, there had to be something up. And huh, he looks like Christian Bale. But I totally didn’t realize that he’d cut off his finger, etc., and that the Interchangeable Twin™ thing was why some days he loved his wife and some days he “didn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/13 "2010-05-05T14:42:26Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I still think I’m missing the mechanics of the sci-fi trick of Hugh Jackman. He kills his duplicate self at each performance. Got that. But I still don’t see how that gives him enough time to run all the way up to the top balcony. It seems you’re only gaining a couple seconds over NOT duplicating yourself and dying. When does he have time to run up there? As somebody upthread said, it’s been a while, but from recollection, the machine makes a duplicate of him some distance away. That was the source of the top hats and cats shown earlier in the movie, in the woods outside Tesla’s house/lab. The machine not only duplicates, it also teleports a short distance. So Jackman somehow jiggered the machine to have his duplicate (or himself, depending on your interpretatio) appear in the balcony. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/14 "2010-05-05T16:19:48Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > So Jackman somehow jiggered the machine to have his duplicate (or himself, depending on your interpretatio) appear in the balcony. The funny thing about this is regardless of which one is considered the “duplicate” (either the one that remains or the one that is transported), both have died at least once, meaning there really is no way Danton is the same. The first time he uses the machine he places a gun next to him just outside the machine. When he sees the other Danton appear outside the machine, he shoots him, so danton is now the one that stays in the machine. But during all his performances, he drowns the one that stays in the machine and the one that appears outside is now him. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/15 "2010-05-05T16:55:42Z")
One particular scene I liked (in hindsight) is when the two go see the old Chinese magician and are awed (Borden) and incredulous (Danton) by his willingness to live his whole life a lie just so he can do a trick – even though both of them are _already_ doing the same thing --Borden is really two people, and Danton is really a rich aristocrat. I too figured out the identity of Borden’s engineer. It was a big mistake, I thought, for Fallon to always appear shadowed and out of focus. To me, at least, it made it absolutely clear that this was something the film was trying to hide from us. Borden and Danton knew the best way to hide something is just not to draw attention to it – I wish Nolan figured it out as well. Bale is a good enough actor that he could have made himself invisible without being off camera. I didn’t think think any of the “twists” of the film were any great shakes – I understood how Danton did his version of the trick well before the movie showed us, too, although not as early as I should have. But it’s still a great movie. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/16 "2010-05-05T17:03:47Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > The funny thing about this is regardless of which one is considered the “duplicate” (either the one that remains or the one that is transported), both have died at least once, meaning there really is no way Danton is the same. > > The first time he uses the machine he places a gun next to him just outside the machine. When he sees the other Danton appear outside the machine, he shoots him, so danton is now the one that stays in the machine. But during all his performances, he drowns the one that stays in the machine and the one that appears outside is now him. But that doesn’t mean that both the one remaining behind and the transported one have died in the past. The first time Danton duplicated himself, he remained in the machine and killed his duplicate. Call the survivor Danton(1). Danton(1) survived the first duplication. Now, after the second duplication (the first time the trick is executed) let’s call the resulting people Danton(a) and Danton(b). (Danton(a) being the one who is teleported, Danton(b) being the one who remains behind and drowns.) Both D(a) and D(b) are “descended”, so to speak, from D(1). You said "whichever you consider the duplicate, both will have died at some time in the past. But if we consider D(a) to be the original, then we consider D(a) to be the same person as D(1). And that person survived both duplications. No matter how many duplications occur over time, you can always take the survivor, choose to identify him as being the same person as the original Danton, and identify him with the survivors of each previous duplication–and in this way, mark out a single person who has not died as a result of any of the duplications. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/17 "2010-05-05T17:45:19Z")
Probably obvious to others, but, in retrospect, I love the scene where the bird is transported, only we learn that one bird dies in the trick. And then, obviously, that’s essentially EXACTLY what happens in the movie. If you watch it through looking for those sorts of things, there’s just a TON of little pieces that hint at what really going on. Love this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/18 "2010-05-05T17:52:21Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > The funny thing about this is regardless of which one is considered the “duplicate” (either the one that remains or the one that is transported), both have died at least once, meaning there really is no way Danton is the same. > > The first time he uses the machine he places a gun next to him just outside the machine. When he sees the other Danton appear outside the machine, he shoots him, so danton is now the one that stays in the machine. But during all his performances, he drowns the one that stays in the machine and the one that appears outside is now him. Was there question whether the guy dying was him or his duplicate? I admit to only seeing the movie once, but I remember being pretty clear that it was the guy starting the trick who dies, and the duplicate who finishes it. That’s what made the obsession so freaking crazy. The main actor was willing to experience death for the sake of the trick. Each of those dead bodies was the body of a man who chose to die each night, not a duplicate who was a victim of the original man’s choice. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/19 "2010-05-05T18:08:19Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Probably obvious to others, but, in retrospect, I love the scene where the bird is transported, only we learn that one bird dies in the trick. And then, obviously, that’s essentially EXACTLY what happens in the movie. If you watch it through looking for those sorts of things, there’s just a TON of little pieces that hint at what really going on. Love this movie. And the boy watching that trick even gets upset about the bird and when he’s told “look, it’s okay, he’s here” the boy replies “I mean his brother”, and of course Bale’s character suffers death for one brother for his magic. > [@Eonwe](#): > > Was there question whether the guy dying was him or his duplicate? I admit to only seeing the movie once, but I remember being pretty clear that it was the guy starting the trick who dies, and the duplicate who finishes it. That’s what made the obsession so freaking crazy. The main actor was willing to experience death for the sake of the trick. Each of those dead bodies was the body of a man who chose to die each night, not a duplicate who was a victim of the original man’s choice. Yes and no - the duplicate is one of someone who had chosen to die, but he’s also effectively the one who lost the coin toss and had to die. When you witness up close the prestige duplicate drowning he doesn’t look all that relaxed about dying. More to the point, the duplicates are ALWAYS the one who survived, they only come from the ones that are get to live in the trick. So whilst Danton is technically correct when he says “You don’t know what I’ve suffered”, meaning his own death, the Danton saying that has never had to experience death, it was always the other Danton. This is moving into mind fuck territory… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340/20 "2010-05-05T18:10:21Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Each of those dead bodies was the body of a man who chose to die each night, not a duplicate who was a victim of the original man’s choice. Yeah, but each person who made that choice had (just almost barely missed-it-by-_this_-much) experienced death dozens of times previously. At the very least, he was the duplicate of a man who made the decision to enter a machine that would kill him - dozens of times over. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-the-film-the-prestige-major-jumbo-spoilers/538340.md?page=2)