# A question about titles for a widowed British Queen Consort **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 11, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019 "2013-02-11T20:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/1 "2013-02-11T20:54:17Z")
Silly question maybe, but here it is. After George VI died Queen Elizabeth, his widow, became the Queen Mother, as she WAS the mother of the currently reigning monarch. But Queen Mary was still alive, the mother of the dead King. I’m presuming she had been the Queen Mother until the death of her son. My question is this, did her title change after QEII became queen? Is there a “Queen Grandmother”? I remember seeing the photo of all three women, dressed in black mourning. > **[Three Queens in Mourning Photographer Dies](https://royalchronicles.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/three-queens-in-mourning-photographer-dies/)** > > Ron Case, the photographer who took the famous photograph of Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, and the new Queen Elizabeth II in 1952 has died. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/2 "2013-02-11T21:03:44Z")
When George VI died, she was no longer Queen Mother, that was Queen Elizabeth (Bowes-Lyons). She did however remain Queen Dowager. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/3 "2013-02-11T21:30:59Z")
Thank you! I wondered if “dowager” would be in there somewhere, but couldn’t be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/4 "2013-02-12T01:07:09Z")
The **title** of a king’s widow is _Queen_. Terms such as “Dowager Queen” and “Queen Mother” are informal usages to enable people to distinguish between people titled Queen, especially those of the same name, such as the former Lady Bowes-Lyon and the present Duchess of Edinburgh. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/5 "2013-02-12T06:46:46Z")
Yup. It works like this: 1. While George V was alive his wife, whose name was Mary, was simply “Her Majesty the Queen”. 2. After George V died, his widow was usually known as “Queen Mary”. Edward VIII was unmarried, but on his abdication he was succeeded by George VI whose wife, Elizabeth, then became “Her Majesty the Queen”. 3. When George VI died, his daughter, also Elizabeth, became (and still is) “Her Majesty the Queen”. It was decided that George VI’s widow should not be simply “Queen Elizabeth”, since that was ambiguous or confusing, so she became “Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother”. The widowed mother of the reigning monarch can usually be referred to as the Queen Mother, but it’s not normally part of her usual formal title. An exception was made in the case of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother because she and the reigning queen had the same name. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/6 "2013-02-12T08:03:03Z")
And just to clarify; just being the mother of the current king or queen does _not_ entitle a woman to be Queen Mother; she has to be the widow of a king. For example since Queen Victoria’s father died without ever being king her mother remained “HRH the Duchess of Kent” even after her daughter ascended the throne. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/7 "2013-02-12T08:14:09Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > And just to clarify; just being the mother of the current king or queen does _not_ entitle a woman to be Queen Mother; she has to be the widow of a king. For example since Queen Victoria’s father died without ever being king her mother remained “HRH the Duchess of Kent” even after her daughter ascended the throne. Yes. At the start of Queen Victoria’s reign, the widow of Willam IV, who would be Victoria’s aunt by marriage, was “Her Majesty Queen Adelaide”. Colloquially, she was referred to as the Queen Dowager, to distinguish her from the Queen, who was Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/8 "2013-02-12T13:01:08Z")
Further Clarification. The reigning Queen is Her Majesty _The_ Queen (either reigning in her own right or by virtue of being married to the King). The widow of a monarch becomes Her Majesty Queen (firstname). _The_ refers to the current reigning queen. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-about-titles-for-a-widowed-british-queen-consort/650019/9 "2013-02-12T17:49:59Z")
An earlier thread that may be of interest: [If Queen Elizabeth were to abdicate... - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=476789)