# A question for Anne Rice fans...and nonfans as well **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 6, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425 "2003-05-06T16:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/21 "2003-05-08T15:55:12Z")
See what I mean? How fast did this thread become a talk about her male characters? There is nothing to say about her females. The strong ones are scheming or whores and the weak ones are crazy or co-dependent ie.Pandora. Dont tell me she was strong… she whined and clung to every male who crossed her path both before AND after becoming a vampire. ---
**Author:** ![TearsOfGlass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9c0ed/32.png) [@TearsOfGlass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TearsOfGlass)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/22 "2003-05-08T16:03:23Z")
How dare you bash Anne Rice’s work. Anne Rice is amazing author and I don’t see why all of the females in her books, must be strong. Also, it has already been pointed out, that there are intelligent females in her books. Her novels are amazing works of art and she is the only one I’ve read, that can make vampires actually artistic. The people in Anne Rice’s novels are beautifully created and very artistic. You need to reread her novels and open your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/23 "2003-05-08T16:05:21Z")
> [@](#): > > They do find some erotic expression in that “vampire kiss” thing, which to hear Rice tell it is better than sex in the same way that sex is better than a glass of water Refrain from drinking for a day or two. Then eat a bag of potato chips. Then go out jogging. Finally, relax in a sauna for an hour or so with a nice bag of pretzels to nosh on. Then tell us whether you would rather have a tall, cool glass of water or some vigorous sex. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/24 "2003-05-08T16:20:41Z")
Tears of Glass … you got issues sugar. I just finished rereading all her vampire books… they are amazing pieces of soft core homoerotic porn. Ask my hubby I haven’t been that wanting of action in months. But bottom line her females suck. ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/25 "2003-05-08T16:27:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krisfer the Cat \* > \*\*See what I mean? > How fast did this thread become a talk about her male characters? There is nothing to say about her females. The strong ones are scheming or whores and the weak ones are crazy or co-dependent ie.Pandora. Dont tell me she was strong… she whined and clung to every male who crossed her path both before AND after becoming a vampire. \*\* Just my 2 cents about Pandora (possibly spoilers included): You say she was clingy before becoming a vampire: however, she was a product of her times. She was as independent as she could be given her situation. Quite frankly, I don’t know how I’d do if my entire family was murdered, but I think she came through it and was determined to go on with her life. In some ways, I would have been more interested to see what would have happened to her without Marius involved. The story was engrossing enough without the vampire connection. ---
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/26 "2003-05-08T16:29:57Z")
> [@](#): > > How dare you bash Anne Rice’s work. Uh, because that’s what these boards are for? Sharing opinions? The hell. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/27 "2003-05-08T17:09:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by QueerGeekGirl \* > \*\* It’s another, however, that really made me love her writing style and skill. She wrote a book called _Belinda_ under the pen name of Anne Rampling, and it’s actually been one of the definitive books of my reading experience… > It’s a rather beautiful story of art and love and youth and age and looking at things in a totally new light. I can’t give it enough props. \*\* Just wanted to second this recommendation wholeheartedly. I’m a minor AR fan–I’ve read a handful of the chronicles and liked the Witching Hour quite a bit. But _Belinda_ was the one I loved. It’s borderline erotica in some places, but in a very unique way. And unlike many of Rice’s other females the title character is strong, independent, and interesting. Definitely check it out if you get the chance. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/28 "2003-05-08T17:26:20Z")
I don’t care which series you want to talk about, Anne Rice has a real genius for coming up with a wonderfully intriguiing set-up and then running it into the ground. I could not put _Thw Witching Hour_ down. Ditto _Interview with a Vampire_ (pre-movie). The first book in each series is brilliant, dark, engrossing, mysterious. The second, orders of magnitude less so. By the time the third and subsequent books roll around, the magic has been squeezed out and I wind up hating all the characters. Male or female. I really liked the female lead in _Witching Hour_, and the idea of a vampire child, trapped forever in a child’s body but with an increasingly adult outlook, was fascinating. So there’s two good female examples. As for the rest, male or female, they wind up being not worth my time, so I think she’s an equal-opportunity weak-character creator. Or rather, she starts out with good characters and then ruins them. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/29 "2003-05-08T19:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skillet38 \* > \*\*There are definate undercurrents of male/male attractedness between Lestat and Louis of course. > > \*\* _Undercurrent_??? **PLU-EEZZZZEE!!!** Interview is the only Anne Rice book I have read and it is the only Anne Rice book I will ever read. I was so thoroughly under-whelmed by that book and I have held a grudge against Kirsten Dunst for playing Claudia in the movie. Claudia in the book is one of the most annoying, poorly written characters I have ever read in a book. ---
**Author:** ![Harli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c0e974/32.png) [@Harli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harli)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/30 "2003-05-08T20:31:52Z")
Wow, so much Anne Rice bashing. I for one have loved every single thing I’ve ever read of Anne Rice’s. (With the possible exception of _Vittorio_, which I only liked.) **Krisfer** does bring up an interesting point. Anne does not focus a great deal on female characters in her earlier books. And when she does, they have their faults. But I would argue that her male characters also have their faults. Myself, I’ve gone through intense love and intense dislike for many of the characters she has created. There is a female character, however, that Anne did paint to be a beautiful, strong, intelligent woman… **Merrick**. It’s been quite some time since I read that novel, but IIRC, Merrick was not whiny, or cruel, or bitchy, or plain. In fact, I would probably consider Merrick to be one of my favourite Ricean characters. I must also offer something in defense of Mona. In _Blackwood Farm_, Mona seems to redeem herself. She stops sleeping around and actually falls in love with one man. There are also many other strong and lovable females in _BF_, such as Aunt Queen, and Jasmine. What about the most recent books, **Krisfer**? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/31 "2003-05-08T21:24:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TearsOfGlass \* > \*\*How dare you bash Anne Rice’s work. Anne Rice is amazing author and I don’t see why all of the females in her books, must be strong. Also, it has already been pointed out, that there are intelligent females in her books. Her novels are amazing works of art and she is the only one I’ve read, that can make vampires actually artistic. The people in Anne Rice’s novels are beautifully created and very artistic. You need to reread her novels and open your eyes. \*\* How old are you? Anne Rice is overblown and overrated. I HAVE re-read her novels. And they still suck. Look, I happen to LOVE reading _Star Wars_ novels. I can’t get enough of them. But I KNOW they’re just pulp fiction. So what? They still entertain me, and that’s what counts. If you like Anne Rice-GREAT! I don’t. I have that right. And yeah, I hated that after _The Witching Hour_, that the next books really sucked. Well, _Lasher_ was OKAY. I liked hearing Julian talk about his childhood and growing up. But that was it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/32 "2003-05-08T21:31:45Z")
I’ve read the Vampire Chronicles up through _Queen of the Damned_ and I have issues that don’t have so much to do with how I feel about the characters as I do with what we are expected to believe about how they got to be where they are. I could sorta buy the “vampire origin myth” from QotD, but really, I can’t swallow Lestat being kidnapped by Magnus, vamped, then his, um, sire immolating himself leaving Lestat with unlimited wealth. That premise makes the whole rest of the Chronicles unbelievable, since Lestat is the central character in all but _Interview_\*. Oh, yeah, then there’s the “instant Rock Star, just add vampire” thing. Lestat is a Mary Sue, plain and simple. I want to go to New Orleans, hunt Anne Rice down and pound a stake through her heart while an English/American Lit professor stands by reading Coleridge’s essay on the suspension of disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/33 "2003-05-08T21:51:16Z")
I picked up _The Witching Hour_ at a book stand, before a train ride. It was OK, sexy, and quite entertaining. A popcorn novell, basically. However, it ain’t art. And the psychology of the characters left me cold. The leading female in TWH, what’s her name, annoyed me, though. I didn’t get an urge to read more by her, but eventually picked up _Lasher_ which sucked in a major way. I’m not spending more money on her writing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/34 "2003-05-08T22:21:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TearsOfGlass \* > How dare you bash Anne Rice’s work. How about: Because I don’t like her. Do I need a better reason? > [@](#): > > Anne Rice is amazing author and I don’t see why all of the females in her books, must be strong. Also, it has already been pointed out, that there are intelligent females in her books. First, “Strong” and “Intelligent” mean two different things. The OP itself acknowledges that many of her female characters are strong and intelligent. His complaint is that they aren’t sympathetic (the “bitch” factor) and tend to fall into two broad stereotypes, and accusation which hasn’t been refuted even by her ardent admirers in this thread. This isn’t even a dismissal of her work in general, merely the notation of one of her literary flaws. > [@](#): > > Her novels are amazing works of art and she is the only one I’ve read, that can make vampires actually artistic. She can make vampires actually artistic? You mean, when other authors try to write about vampires who paint, or write poetry, they just can’t pull it off, but Anne Rice can write about artistic vampires like nobody’s business? I think you need to define what you mean by artistic in this context. > [@](#): > > The people in Anne Rice’s novels are beautifully created and very artistic. Beautifully created and very artistic (there’s that word again), maybe. But are they _realistic_? I didn’t find them to be so. Although the vamps all had different goals and motivations, I found their essential personalities to be rather repetitive and interchangable. Everyone tends to be either a Lestatian “Zest for unlife” type, or a Louisian “Sit around and mope for a few centuries” type. And even there, the dichotomy seemed more of a manic/depressive split rather than true individualization of her characters. I suspect Rice tends to write most of her characters as some facet of her own personality. She’s not particualrly good at understanding how other people think, so she bases all her characters off of herself. From what I’ve seen of her self-publicity, she seems to be hugely ego-centric, which would back up that interpretation, but that’s a very uninformed opinion: I have almost no idea what sort of person she is in real life, aside from what I’ve heard in the form of rumor and innuendo. > [@](#): > > You need to reread her novels and open your eyes. Reading her books once was punishment enough. Perhaps you need to read more novels that _aren’t_ by Anne Rice. It’s easy to mistake her work as literature if you haven’t had much exposure to the real thing. All that said, her “Sleeping Beauty” hard-core bondage porn trilogy was very entertaining. Not much porn out there is as relentlessly pan-sexual as Rice’s, which gave it quite a bit of novelty value, on top of her own admittedly impressive talents at eroticism. She should stick with the skin books, I think that’s her true calling. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/35 "2003-05-08T22:50:54Z")
Me again. For the record ignore the fer this cat is une femme. Okay I do like Merrick a lot. She was strong, intellegent and VERY capable… but she was also coniving. She tricked David in the first 20 pages and seduced Louis( a rather comic thought to my mind as I have rarely come across a GAYER character than Louis). For my birthday my best bud Mitchey bought me an autographed copy of Merrick! Go Mitchey! I agree with Lilacs… Pandora was a FAR better book before she became a vampire. I also agree that Anne Rice is becoming a formula writer. I am SO FREAKIN tired of her story within a story format. I read Blackwood Farm and all the way through it I was thinking can we just get back to the plot with Lestat and Quinn. I did enjoy Witching Hour and I really liked Lasher. But I think she has over done the “I’m not evil I have just been misquoted” thing. Julian, Lestat, Armand… I think David Talbot is her only character right now worth following. Especially since Merrick is dead. Now as for the accusation of her novels being art: Tears you need to go find a little ditty called “Camilla” by Sheridan Le Fanu. AR panned it in the end of The Vampire, Lestat. But that story is incredilbly well crafted. The characters have depth that AR’s will never have… now that is art. Reality is not now and never will be AR’s forte… but then if I wanted reality I’d read the newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/36 "2003-05-09T02:43:24Z")
Actually that is **Carmilla** by Sheridan Le Fanu… an absolutely scary and erotic vampire story… That is a strong woman! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/37 "2003-05-09T03:38:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thea Logica \* > \*\*I want to go to New Orleans, hunt Anne Rice down and pound a stake through her heart while an English/American Lit professor stands by reading Coleridge’s essay on the suspension of disbelief. \*\* _Ooooooooooh!_ Can I help? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/38 "2003-05-09T19:46:47Z")
What did she say about _Carmilla_? As far as horror goes, I think Stephen King is better. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/39 "2003-05-09T20:12:11Z")
"Her novels are amazing works of art " Michaelangelo, Mozart, Picasso, Gershwin, Wright, Rice Which one of these things doesn’t belong? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425/40 "2003-05-09T20:27:29Z")
Two of 'em don’t belong: Anne Rice and Frank Lloyd Wright. Sumbitch ruined modern architecture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-anne-rice-fans-and-nonfans-as-well/173425.md?page=3)