A Question for Atheists

I think men do evil because they have no conscience, they have no sense of guilt. Either that, or they did something in the heat of the moment, and couldn’t control themselves.

What fills my questions? Science. Science explains things quite well. And if science can’t, i can make many of my own explanations that don’t involve a god. Of course, some things that we can’t explain i let go unexplained.

I’m not a total atheist either. I do beleive in a diety of some sort, but not in a christian sense.

I used to go to church. When i got old enough, i saw what a bunch of hypocrites the christians were, and how foolish their beliefs were (no offense). Things like the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the conquistadors, etc., really made me realize how evil organized religion can be.

Sorry, hijack, terribly sorry . . .

Stoid, you could look at, say, the body of a two year old who had been raped to death and say that you truley believe that on some cosmic plane that act is the same as painting a glorious painting or helping out a friend in need? Don’t dignify many horrible individual acts done by many horrible individuals by lumping them all together and granting them metaphysical status. I couldn’t live with the guilt of such a worldview–it means that all my pleasure comes at the cost of Auschwitz and the like.

I have not replaced God with anything, since God was never there. I simply adopted a philosophy in which He is unnecessary to explain the universe. While I was growing up, my elders attempted to convert me, at various times, to Seventh Day Adventism, Mormonism, Methodisim, and Southern Baptist. The reason I rejected them all was because I simply didn’t buy it. I have seen no evidence to suggest that God exists, and I have no proof that he doesn’t. I feel that I have far more to gain, and much less to lose, to not live my life in the hopes of some promised reward in an imagined afterlife, but rather to live my life for the here and now.
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These can be answered without God with one word: evolution. We can trace our lineage through time. We can trace our relationships with virtually every living thing on earth. We see that we are one of them, not a separate being, put here do dominate over the earth (thinking, which, to my mind, has resulted in the current ecological and environmental problems we face today).
As for the evil…I see humans as basically animals. We are smart, self-aware animals, to be sure, but still animals. And we still maintain a bit of our savage nature. We attempt to hide this nature with morality; when we fail, we do evil. But, I don’t believe in Evil (or Good) in any cosmic sense. Had we not bothered to become civilized in the first place, evil wouldn’t even be an issue.
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I have my answers.
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Here, again, you make the assumption that there once was a belief in God. For many atheists (and agnostics, for that matter), there was no initial belief. Thus, there was no replacement of belief or moral code.

Why, the IPU, of course. She answers everything.

Esprix

I fit the OP’s description of someone raised in a religious background, one bordering on fanaticism. Through observation, I realized that the religion of my parents was, well, a fraud intended to get people’s money (or at least 10% of it).
I rejected the devil a long time ago because I am mature and responsible enough to take ownership of my own thoughts, desires and actions. If I do “evil”, it is almost always out of selfishness and a lack of empathy, not because a clown with cloven hooves made me do it. So I guess I replaced the Devil with personal responsibility. “Morality” is a set of rules “because God said so”. I replaced morality with ethics, which are based on “what is best for all involved”.
I started questioning the existence of God at age 9. I replaced the God of my parents with an impersonal “Great Spirit Who Moves in All Things” in my early 20’s. A sort of mind and soul of the Universe. Sometimes I still believe in this being (or process), sometimes I am a pure atheist.
There are no questions of morality that religion can answer that cannot be answered better with common sense and empathy. There are no questions of origins that cannot be answered better bt scientific inquiry. The big difference is that science doesn’t claim to have all the answers, just a better framework for asking questions.

Well, this is kind of a long story, so pack a lunch.:wink:
HOW DID I BECOME AN ATHEIST?

Slowly. My non-belief evolved over time - close to four years. It wasn’t sudden at all.

It seems that an overwhelming number of Atheists either come from families who were religious, or at the very least, believers, and were religious as youth - as I was - and I find that, more often than not, many Atheists simply have a better understanding of the concept of religion and scripture than most of the devoutly religious for one simple reason: they don’t have their conclusions clouded by belief; they look for logic in the events of the bible. This “clinical” approach often bares facts, inconsistencies, and anachronisms that many religious people either overlook or simply dismiss as “god’s will”.

For me, the path of disbelief began at age 13 when I questioned the pastor of my church after reading the bible in its entirety for the first time. When I was finished, I was horrified, angry, and feeling like I had been lied to. The pastor was a very moral man, and to say he lied to me does him a disservice. But, it is clear he did withhold information in teaching only select parts of the bible.

That Sunday, I went to church as usual. But, there was nothing usual about that warm July day.

“God loves all his children?” I asked the pastor.

“Yes, of course he does!” came the reply.

“Well, if god loved his children, why did he do the things that the bible says he did to them. You know… torturing people, killing the first born male child, demanding human sacrifices, and even drowning nearly every person and nearly every animal on the planet?!”

“To teach us a lesson.”

“And that would be…?”

“To love him and accept his divine wisdom, of course!”

That was the last time I went to church. But, over the course of the next few years, the pangs of guilt hadn’t subsided. It was a confusing time. But, the atrocities committed by this “loving” god in the bible was something I couldn’t forget.

Researching the book again with a critical eye confirmed my suspicion: it was the most offensive, vile, reprehensible book I’ve ever read.

And finally, my pangs of guilt ended. I had truly seen the light.

I don’t hate the poor pastor, but I pity him. His by-the-textbook, seminary-approved answer to a simple question was almost undoubtedly borne of blind faith and ignorance, but I suppose you can say it helped me understand, albeit in a manner he didn’t intend.

I didn’t look for an alternate belief system and I don’t want one. I believe in myself first and foremost and try to look for the good in others. My parents taught me right from wrong, and I believe that morals begin in the home, not in religion.

And you’ll surely notice that religious instiutions are filled with some very immoral characters. And the history of religion - Christianity, Judaism, and Islam in particular - is hardly pristine, as some of its most famous and most devout practicioners claim.

If I were to look for an alternative, it would probably be Buddha since he stressed one point to his students: “do not deify me”. Siddhartha Gautama Buddha was not a god; he was a teacher. I don’t claim any great knowledge of the man, but that is one that I do know.

Then nothing. I assume you’re talking about the Tri-Omni Christian God, which I’ve always thought was pretty much a farce. I believe some theists accept a ‘kickstart’ God, who started the whole ball rolling and then disappeared. As for myself, I believe the universe is.
I’m not really concerned about where the world comes from, where it will end, and the existence of an afterlife. This is the only life I will ever have, and this is also the only life that you will ever have.
When you start believing something else, then you become dangerous. Think about it: How many suicide bombers would there be in the Middle East if they weren’t brainwashed into thinking they’d be entering a land of ecstasy moments after blowing their corporeal form to bits? How many people would endure abusive relationships if they knew this is the only spin at the wheel they have?

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I think this is false. I don’t know anyone who was actively taught about christianity and then rejected it. All the atheists I know are ‘heathens’; never went to church, never officially told about god (just what comes through the water), and never really indoctrinated in the J-C mythos.

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Nah, you’re all wrong here Mambo. All the evidence I’ve seen (such as all the barroom arguments, philosophical debates, and many, many threads here) indicates that belief in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim mythos presents no solution to these questions. It just raises problems.
In fact, the whole question of why men do evil, and why evil exists, are only dilemmas for those who believe in God.

Some of the best minds in the Christian church spent their lives creating philosophical tracts about why evil exists, and their best answer can be summed up as : Because humans need the free will to accept God and reject evil. Sounds like a crock to me.

Think about it. If you believe in an Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent being, then why evil exists is a huge problem. Without the Tri-Omni, evil becomes a question of people doing bad things because they have their reasons: need more territory, were abused as a child, fear, etc…
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As stated above, I never replaced the concept of God, and I don’t know anyone who has. As for what my moral code is, it’s the same as everyone else on the planet.

Help members of the tribe.
Don’t hurt members of the tribe.
Protect the tribe from enemies.

The only caveat is who qualifies to be a member of my tribe. My definition of my tribe is much broader than every church-going person I’ve ever met. Which is really sad.

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You seem to have the notion that there is a unified atheistic movement. That’s not the case. fnord.

Reason.

Some great answers there. Spiritus summed it up with his usual panache. Stoid’s answer was good but well critiqued by Manda JO. To be honest, I’d like to mention everyone, since you all have done a good job of presenting the atheistic view.

But this time I think that I’m going to have to give the prize to tracer. The view is, indeed, breathtaking.

pan

Hey, you didn’t tell me it was a contest! I could’ve done better! Really!

Actually, I thought tracer and Spiritus sort of tied for first place. But there’s lots of good stuff here. Atheists are a pretty literate bunch.

To repeat what others have said, Spiritus pretty well summed it up for me also. But I’ll throw a little more wood on the fire:

Nothing. Did you really not know the answer to this question?

True. But we’re all born atheists.

Reality.

We seek out the real answers, not the ones that are handed to us in supposed holy books. It’s a bit more difficult, but sometimes getting it right tends to be that way.

There is no “alternate belief system” to defend.

But earlier in your thread you stated that you believe that we’re all born atheists… isn’t that part of another belief system?

No. Think about it. Did you believe in God when you were born? No, of course not. Thus, you were born an atheist. The lack of a belief is not a belief system.

Hmm… that’s not really my point.

Fact is, you now believe that we’re born atheists. The fact that you believe it implies that it is part of your belief system.

I believe, for example, that we are all born sinners. (Maybe you and I don’t start too far apart). Fact is, that’s part of my belief system.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by walor *
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The prefix “a-” simply means without. It indicates an absence of theism, not believing in gods. Or, as Clark Adams said, atheism is a religion in the same way that health is a disease. The presence of one is the absence of the other. “Belief system” is a much broader term than “religion,” of course; still, atheism is not a “belief system” in anything like the way that religion is.

I agree.

Lost me here… is atheism ‘nearly’ a belief system, or perhaps ‘almost’ a belief system.

DavidB for example, believes that we’re all born atheists. Surely that’s part of his ‘belief system’. Are atheists somehow excused having a ‘belief system’?

I understand that an atheist is someone with an absense of theism… they do not believe in Gods. That’s fine.

But how can we be without a ‘belief system’? Surely, by believing anything, we have one by default.

I don’t really have anything to add to the answers of the OP, that’s been pretty well covered, but regarding atheism being a “lack of a belief”–is that really correct? I think I understand what you’re trying to say, but atheism is disbelief in God, i.e., a belief that there is no God. I’ll agree that that single (dis)belief may not constitute a belief system, but it’s still a belief. Now agnosticism, that’s lack of a belief.

Damn. Cabbage stole my point. I guess I’ll just have to agree with him (or her). Agnosticism is the only real lack of belief. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. I suspect that all (or at least nearly all) atheists replace God with science, so science becomes their belief system. (And before you claim that science is not a belief system, consider the ether.)

Everybody sing along now:

weak atheism, strong atheism
weak atheism, strong atheism

Weak atheism is the absence of belief. Strong atheism is the belief in an absence.

Agnosticism is something else entirely, namely the belief that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not.

Personally I believe that this isn’t the last time that mistake will be made in this thread.

pan

And in another 2000 years we will posses real knowlege compared to our ancient ancestors confusion:)