# A question for logical Mormons in the know. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2001, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497 "2001-01-17T12:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![smilingjaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@smilingjaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingjaws)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/321 "2001-02-03T17:39:15Z")
Wow things haven’t changed much since I stopped spending time on this board–the mormons are still refusing to actually debate historical facts and relying on their usual methods of geeting off-topic on side issues to avoid facing the fact that the origin of their faith is based on contradictory and constantly revised clap-trap. Vanilla, You are absolutely right. Mormons are not Christians. If Mormons are Christians, then Moslems and Christians are Jews–after all they started with the same text, worship the same original God–just added a few more texts to explain the original, right? No real changes from Jew to Christian or Jew to Moslim, just little disagreements on minor interpretation, right? Just ask any Jew, “Aren’t Christians and Moslems Jews?”–I’m absolutely sure they’ll agree! Good Luck Brian–it gets so frustrating debating with Mormons it’s not really worth it–and don’t expect them to read any material that might actually open their eyes–you know from your own experience they are discouraged from reading any material that isn’t “faith-promoting”. Of course, that’s not censorship–just the voice of wisdom from the great leaders–after all Mormonism promotes careful reasoning and study regardless of where the facts lead–that’s why BYU has such an outstanding world-wide reputation for scholarship and research! Just ask the folks at BYU–they’ll tell you themselves and that’s good enough proof for anyone 🙂 I’m sure some Mormon can provide you a nice site that says exactly that! ---
**Author:** ![smilingjaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@smilingjaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingjaws)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/322 "2001-02-03T17:40:43Z")
Oops, change geeting (what??) to going ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/323 "2001-02-03T20:28:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smilingjaws \* > Wow things haven’t changed much since I stopped spending time on this board–the mormons are still refusing to actually debate historical facts and relying on their usual methods of geeting off-topic on side issues to avoid facing the fact that the origin of their faith is based on contradictory and constantly revised clap-trap. Incorrect. First of all, Diane isn’t Mormon. Second, the big issue here is that Brian asserted that “nobody’s allowed to publish” information critical of the LDS church in Utah. Third, it is actually Brian who is refusing to bolster his assertion with fact. > [@](#): > > Vanilla, > You are absolutely right. Mormons are not Christians. No qupie doll for sj here! I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: “Just because someone’s not your particular flavour of Christian does not mean that they are not Christian. The fact remains that the LDS believe the Christ they revere is the Christ of the Bible. That alone makes them Christian.” > [@](#): > > If Mormons are Christians, then Moslems and Christians are Jews–after all they started with the same text, worship the same original God–just added a few more texts to explain the original, right? No real changes from Jew to Christian or Jew to Moslim, just little disagreements on minor interpretation, right? Just ask any Jew, “Aren’t Christians and Moslems Jews?”–I’m absolutely sure they’ll agree! Your leaps of logic here would be fascinating if they contained logic. > [@](#): > > Good Luck Brian–it gets so frustrating debating with Mormons it’s not really worth it Actually, it doesn’t seem to be too frustrating for a good number of people. Apparently, it is worth it for them. After all, there are those who leave the LDS church, as there are those who leave the Episcopal church, the Roman Catholic church, etc. > [@](#): > > –and don’t expect them to read any material that might actually open their eyes Care to prove this? I read lots of stuff, both critical and supportive of my church and critical and supportive of Islam, to mention just two. > [@](#): > > –you know from your own experience they are discouraged from reading any material that isn’t “faith-promoting”. That’s quite a stretch. You failed to mention that those of us who dwell in the world of reality do not equate “forbidden to read faith promoting material” with “discouraged from reading material that is not faith promoting.” > [@](#): > > Of course, that’s not censorship–just the voice of wisdom from the great leaders Your sarcasm aside, you are correct in that it is not censorship. You apparently did not notice that Brian asserted that it is. The big issue at the moment in this thread is for Brian to prove the latter assertion. > [@](#): > > –after all Mormonism promotes careful reasoning and study regardless of where the facts lead–that’s why BYU has such an outstanding world-wide reputation for scholarship and research! Since BYU actually does have a good reputation, and not just with Mormons, and is an accredited university, care to explain how that came about? > [@](#): > > Just ask the folks at BYU–they’ll tell you themselves and that’s good enough proof for anyone 🙂 I’m sure some Mormon can provide you a nice site that says exactly that! I’m sure you could manage that on your own. Oops, I forgot you’re the one who posted a heap of lies on this very message board about a priesthood blessing. You finalized the proof of it being a lie when you asserted that it was a baptismin your third version of the “event.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/324 "2001-02-03T20:39:08Z")
Please correct in your mind my misspelling of baptism above. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/325 "2001-02-03T20:51:04Z")
Please correct also the following: > [@](#): > > That’s quite a stretch. You failed to mention that those of us who dwell in the world of reality do not equate “forbidden to read faith promoting material” with “discouraged from reading material that is not faith promoting.” to read: > [@](#): > > That’s quite a stretch. You failed to mention that those of us who dwell in the world of reality do not equate “encouraged to read faith promoting material” with “prohibited from reading material that is not faith promoting.” Apparently, if there is a censor out there, he or she didn’t catch this one in time. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2001, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/326 "2001-02-04T01:21:38Z")
Vanilla, the link you posted is the story by a man, not a woman, who says he was fired. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/327 "2001-02-04T20:42:18Z")
smilingjaws! 🙂 Yes, you are correct in your assertion about changing so much it isn’t the same religion. It was quite logical, but then again, Mormons are quite defensive and don’t use “logic”. BTW, it came to me last night that John Lennon, after the left the Beatles, actually Became LDS for a short time. Proof? The song Let it Be. Clues? “Speaking words of wisdom”. Word Of WIsdom! See?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/328 "2001-02-05T14:11:07Z")
smilingjaws - (1) We aren’t asking Brian to prove or disprove Mormon doctrine. We are asking him to prove his statement that there is total censorship in the State of Utah. (2) Not only am I not LDS, I have strange feelings against the teachings. (3) Try to keep up, m’kay? ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/329 "2001-02-05T14:21:52Z")
Yeecks! :eek: Too much cough syrup this morning! I meant to write “strong feelings” instead of “strange feelings”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497/330 "2001-02-05T15:02:07Z")
Heck, Diane; SJ/Bluebird (hey, _ **B** _lue_ **b** _ird & _ **B** _rian _ **B** _unnyhurt…ominous, hey?) can’t even keep up with her own fibs, let alone keep up with Brian’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-logical-mormons-in-the-know/50497.md?page=16)