# A question for people of faith: other gods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425 "2007-05-24T23:18:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/1 "2007-05-24T23:18:39Z")
This is a question for Christians, Jews and believers in any other deity: A. What do you think about the possible existence of _other_ gods? They’re figments of believers’ imaginations, they must exist, or something in between? B. To what do you attribute the of wording of the first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” - was this in your opinion something God actually communicated or something added by the scribe? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/2 "2007-05-24T23:53:50Z")
You may find what you’re looking for in this thread: [First commandment - suggestion of polytheism?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417845) My answer to your first question would depend on what you mean by “gods.” As I said in that thread, > [@](#): > > A modern interpretation of this commandment that I’ve seen frequently is that, if you’re a believer, God is supposed to come first. If your ultimate allegience is to money, or a totalitarian state, or another human being, or your own appetites, or whatever, then that’s your god “before Me,” and you’re breaking that commandment. > > This interpretation probably isn’t what it meant to the Israelites, but it is at least suggested by Jesus’s statement that “you cannot serve both God and Mammon.” It’s pretty clear that other gods of _that_ sort do exist. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/3 "2007-05-25T00:11:52Z")
1. God, by my definition, has to be one. If there were more than one, it would have to be like ants. Somehow many but, at the same time, the same. All the “gods” that religions have are different angles, views and perceptions of that same one God. 2. Just a reminder to not lose focus by worrying about other things. No idea is it was God saying it or the author, but the message holds the same (just as the rest of the whole thing) ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/4 "2007-05-25T00:12:24Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] This is a question for Christians, Jews and believers in any other deity: A. What do you think about the possible existence of _other_ gods? They’re figments of believers’ imaginations, they must exist, or something in between? B. To what do you attribute the of wording of the first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” - was this in your opinion something God actually communicated or something added by the scribe? [/QUOTE] A. Christianity as I understand it and practice it is a firmly monotheistic religion. I affirmatively deny the existence of any other god but God. B. I presume that all the commandments are from God, not added by scribes. If I admit of additions by men, then all of the commandments, and every part of them, are suspect. I interpret “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” to mean that as Christians, we should not worship any other gods but God. It acknowledges the existence of the _concept_ of other gods, but does not grant them status as actual gods, because there is only one. I would also point out that the first two commandments, taken together, are frequently read to support this view. Cf: You shall not have any God before me. You shall not make any graven image of anything in heaven or earth or water (all elements created by God, nothing that is independent of God or independently “god”); you should not make graven images or worship them (the “them” therefore being things in heaven or earth or water, all things within God’s creation, all things that are therefore not “god”). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/5 "2007-05-25T00:16:11Z")
I think I’m going to have to move this from IMHO to GD. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/6 "2007-05-25T00:20:17Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] This is a question for Christians, Jews and believers in any other deity: A. What do you think about the possible existence of _other_ gods? They’re figments of believers’ imaginations, they must exist, or something in between? B. To what do you attribute the of wording of the first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” - was this in your opinion something God actually communicated or something added by the scribe? [/QUOTE] A. I affirmatively deny (thanks **Jodi** ) the existence of any other Gods (than G-d). However, I acknowledge that the concept of other gods/types of god exists. I also believe that the G-d of Judaism is substantially the same god as in Christianity (though I obviously disagree on the specifics!) and Islam and, though I don’t know much about it, possibly Hinduism (which is sometimes spoken of as monotheistic with god of many ‘avatars’). B. I believe that this commandment makes sense in the polytheistic, religiously ‘competitive’ environment surrounding ancient Israel (particularly of concern was ‘Ba’al’ the god of some neighbouring tribes). Allegorical interpretation of ‘god’ as non-god thing treated as god is an excellent reinterpretation that accomplishes the same thing for an age in which there are not many competing polytheistic religions. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/7 "2007-05-25T00:30:26Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] This is a question for Christians, Jews and believers in any other deity: A. What do you think about the possible existence of other gods? They’re figments of believers’ imaginations, they must exist, or something in between? [/QUOTE] There is only one true God, but there are many false gods. Many of these false gods are demonic supernatural beings, and do give this false gods power to act like a ‘god’ should, though this power is far less then the true God. > [@](#): > > B. To what do you attribute the of wording of the first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” - was this in your opinion something God actually communicated or something added by the scribe? Absolutely from God, God does not want His children to worship demons. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/8 "2007-05-25T00:30:40Z")
What do you think is meant by _graven image_? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/9 "2007-05-25T02:05:56Z")
1. I (often) believe in the existence of one Divine Energy that is so massively complex, containing everything and nothing, that we’d can’t begin to comprehend It in It’s totality. Therefore we (people) break up the Whole into little bits and pieces that can be comprehended. Different names, personalities, rules, etc. I believe we people have the unconscious ability to “create” new gods by focusing on a different set of attributes and creating stories around them. I think that when enough people concentrate and will that into being, another god-form is created. I think that some god-forms, some names and stories, are best understood by different cultures at different times, or different individuals, or even the same individual at different times in her life and spiritual development. 2. I believe the passage was written by men (and perhaps women) and then translated from one language to another, with the inherent problems translations always bring. But since it works so well with my world view, I choose to take this commandment as meaning that there were other gods of equivalent stature and role of the God of Abraham, but that this particular god laid claim to those people with those words (or that they dedicated themselves to Him with those words - I’m not sure which way I think the intent went). I don’t believe the commandment applies to me, as I am not a descendant of Abraham’s people. [QUOTE=Zoe] What do you think is meant by graven image? [/QUOTE] Going only by the English (because I don’t know the original language, much less anything it’s been filtered through), it seems pretty unambiguous: graven means carved, image means a likeness of; a prohibition against making graven images means you’re not allowed to make a carved likeness of anything. I actually have never heard the mental gymnastics that Christians go through to convince themselves that their Crucifixes, statues of Mary and butter lambs aren’t all violating that commandment. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/10 "2007-05-25T05:17:27Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] A. What do you think about the possible existence of _other_ gods? They’re figments of believers’ imaginations, they must exist, or something in between? [/quote] I believe their is a spiritual realm, and a variety of spiritual beings in addition to God. Inherently most of what exists in the spirit realm is beyond what an ordinary human can understand, and can only be partially understood through simplification and metaphor. Some beings may be called “gods” or “goddesses” in such a simplification; they may share lesser versions of the same powers that God has, but none can equal or exceed the power of God. > [@](#): > > B. To what do you attribute the of wording of the first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” - was this in your opinion something God actually communicated or something added by the scribe? I think God meant it literally–no worshiping beings other than God. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/11 "2007-05-25T08:02:15Z")
Although the Bible does seem to describe powerful spiritual beings distinct from God and desirous of human attention, it’s also worth noting that just talking about ‘other gods’ doesn’t necessarily mean that in every case; consider [Isaiah 44](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=44&version=31): > [@](#): > > 13 The carpenter measures with a line > and makes an outline with a marker; > he roughs it out with chisels > and marks it with compasses. > He shapes it in the form of man, > of man in all his glory, > that it may dwell in a shrine. > > 14 He cut down cedars, > or perhaps took a cypress or oak. > He let it grow among the trees of the forest, > or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow. > > 15 It is man’s fuel for burning; > some of it he takes and warms himself, > he kindles a fire and bakes bread. > But he also fashions a god and worships it; > he makes an idol and bows down to it. > > 16 Half of the wood he burns in the fire; > over it he prepares his meal, > he roasts his meat and eats his fill. > He also warms himself and says, > “Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.” > > 17 From the rest he makes a god, his idol; > he bows down to it and worships. > He prays to it and says, > “Save me; you are my god.” > > 18 They know nothing, they understand nothing; > their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see, > and their minds closed so they cannot understand. > > 19 No one stops to think, > no one has the knowledge or understanding to say, > “Half of it I used for fuel; > I even baked bread over its coals, > I roasted meat and I ate. > Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left? > Shall I bow down to a block of wood?” > > 20 He feeds on ashes, a deluded heart misleads him; > he cannot save himself, or say, > “Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?” -It’s pretty clearly describing an idol with no actual spiritual power or being, yet the term ‘god’ is still used to describe it - I would therefore say ‘making a god’ is about investing importance in something - and could therefore be applied to any object, living or inanimate, spiritual or mundane, real or imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/12 "2007-05-25T08:56:45Z")
Quite a few OT stories, such as the one about Elijah and the priests of Baal, make it clear that God exists and sometimes made his existence clear by works of wonder such as igniting a dripping-wet sacrificial pyre, while the objects of other peoples’ religions were constructs of their own imagination and had no power. > [@WhyNot](#): > > Going only by the English (because I don’t know the original language, much less anything it’s been filtered through), it seems pretty unambiguous: graven means carved, image means a likeness of; a prohibition against making graven images means you’re not allowed to make a carved likeness of anything. I actually have never heard the mental gymnastics that Christians go through to convince themselves that their Crucifixes, statues of Mary and butter lambs aren’t all violating that commandment. Here’s a mental gymnastic for you: Christians do not believe that their God _resides_ in such an image, but only use it as a prop through which they can focus their attention on God in His infinite majesty. The heathen in his blindness may bow down to wood and stone, believing that the object he has made with the work of his own hands actually _is_ his god, but no Christian actually believes that Jesus _is_ the sculpted image on the crucifix worn around his neck - the image is only a reminder of Him Who sits at the right hand of the Father, whence He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. But because of Him of Whom the image is a reminder, it is very right and fitting to treat even the image with reverence - just as, for instance (AIUI), the Spanish do not lick their postage stamps on account of the gross disrepect to their King implied by putting his likeness in their mouths. It is not to imply that the image itself is the Person Who is depicted thereby, but to be aware that to disrepect the image today might lead to disrespect of the Person tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/13 "2007-05-25T13:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] This is a question for Christians, Jews and believers in any other deity: A. What do you think about the possible existence of _other_ gods? They’re figments of believers’ imaginations, they must exist, or something in between? B. To what do you attribute the of wording of the first commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” - was this in your opinion something God actually communicated or something added by the scribe? [/QUOTE] See, that to me is the difference between “God-capital-G” and “a god”. God is Almighty. A god is not. God is All-creator. A god is not. God has to be one. “Encarnations of ideas,” “values,” “things you strive for,” you can have tons (the first option is pretty much what the Greek and Roman gods where, and the vibe I get from many other polytheistic religions, but I’m not a theologian). That thing about Spanish stamps is complete UL. Heck, you rarely even see a stamp with Juan Carlos on it, it’s usually some other pic. People who use lots of stamps don’t lick stamps because they have a little wet sponge that doesn’t feel icky after wetting several stamps - those of us who don’t have a little sponge lick stamps just fine and go “ewww” if we’ve licked more than a couple. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/14 "2007-05-25T13:27:36Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Here’s a mental gymnastic for you: Christians do not believe that their God _resides_ in such an image, but only use it as a prop through which they can focus their attention on God in His infinite majesty. The heathen in his blindness may bow down to wood and stone, believing that the object he has made with the work of his own hands actually _is_ his god, but no Christian actually believes that Jesus _is_ the sculpted image on the crucifix worn around his neck - the image is only a reminder of Him Who sits at the right hand of the Father, whence He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. [/QUOTE] Oh, I don’t think that’s very gymnastic at all. Maybe there’s a teensy handspring backflip in there, but it’s only in thinking that we heathens can’t work out the same rationalization as a Christian. I don’t literally believe that the hunk of resin and paint I bought for $14.99 at the mall is actually the Egyptian goddess Isis. As you say they say, it merely serves as something for me to look at and focus my intent on, as well as containing subtle cues that align my subconscious into a particular frame of mind. I’ll treat the hunk of resin with respect, because I’ve made it Sacred, but it’s not itself any more Divine than anything or anyone else. But the part I don’t understand isn’t about the worshiping of or in front of graven images - it’s the making them part. It just seems so very clear: “(8)You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;” See the semicolon? Means that side of the sentence stands on its own merits. The prohibition against worshiping graven idols, which comes next: “(9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,” is _in addition to_, not instead of, \*making \*said graven images So in addition to the religious symbols I’ve already mentioned, a stone bird, a statue of a fish or statues of revolutionary war heroes should all be anathema. That’s the gymnastics I’ve never heard explained. They all seem to skip over that first part and jump right to the worship issue. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/15 "2007-05-25T13:30:36Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Going only by the English (because I don’t know the original language, much less anything it’s been filtered through), it seems pretty unambiguous: graven means carved, image means a likeness of; a prohibition against making graven images means you’re not allowed to make a carved likeness of anything. I actually have never heard the mental gymnastics that Christians go through to convince themselves that their Crucifixes, statues of Mary and butter lambs aren’t all violating that commandment. [/QUOTE] The commandment is a ban on portraiture but on such art to bow down/show reverence to it. As such, I am uneasy about “iconodulia”, which I have participated in as a former Blue Army of Fatima member. Biblical Jews had images of the Cherubim in the Temple but those images were not revered. They technically could have made images of the Shekinah Glory of YHWH all day long BUT they could not have shown reverence to this. The image of the Bronze Serpent (Seraphim?) was commanded by God, but later destroyed when it became an object of veneration. In their practice of a “fence around the Law”, the Jewish authorities discouraged all such depictive art. Believe me, there was a big theological row in the Church about it which was finally settled by the Second Council of Nicea in 787 AD > **[Iconoclasm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclastic#Byzantine_Iconoclasm)** > > Iconoclasm (from Ancient Greek εἰκών (eikṓn) 'figure, icon' and κλάω (kláō) 'to break')\[i\] is the belief in the importance of the destruction of icons and other images or monuments, often for religious or political reasons. Those who engage in or support iconoclasm are called iconoclasts, a term that has come to be applied figuratively and more broadly to anyone who challenges "cherished beliefs or venerated institutions on the grounds that they are erroneous or pernicious". Conversely, one who... > **[Iconography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconography#Icons_in_Christianity)** > > Iconography, as a branch of art history, studies the identification, description and interpretation of the content of images: the subjects depicted, the particular compositions and details used to do so, and other elements that are distinct from artistic style. The word iconography comes from the Greek εἰκών ("image") and γράφειν ("to write" or to draw). A secondary meaning (based on a non-standard translation of the Greek and Russian equivalent terms) is the production or study of the religious ... Basically, the Christian (Cathlic & Orthodox) defenses of venerating objects- the Incarnation of God as Jesus gave us a valid material image of God, icons are images of real Godly spiritual beings (the Trinity, angels & saints) and not of false gods, and Malacandra’s explanation. There are some extreme iconoclasts in Reformed circles today who even condemn Bible story books with pictures of Jesus. I think there is even a Reformed publishing company that caters to them. While I do see the dilemna, btw, about Crucifixes & Mary-images, I’m not aware of any veneration of “butter lambs”. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/16 "2007-05-25T13:34:23Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] While I do see the dilemna, btw, about Crucifixes & Mary-images, I’m not aware of any veneration of “butter lambs”. [/QUOTE] My apologies for choosing three obviously religious images for my first examples; it only served to muddy the waters by putting the focus on the worship angle. As I replied above, a reading of the commandment seems to indicate that any graven image, worshiped or not, is prohibited by your God. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/17 "2007-05-25T13:43:52Z")
A. I believe that an omnipotent God could and would reveal Himself to different cultures in ways that each culture could best understand. I don’t think that belief in the God of Christianity precludes the possibiity that the gods of say the Polynesians are but a different manifestation of the same God. B. I think it was given to Moses as stated. But I wouldn’t interpret that as invalidating other religions, it was for _that_ people at the time that the commandment was directed. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/18 "2007-05-25T14:07:57Z")
A. I am Roman Catholic. I believe that “God” is “the One God”, the Creator, Supreme Authority over all of Creation. I have no problem whatsoever with the concept of other gods. Whether they are truly “gods”, or whether they are something “else”, I have no idea. For example, I personally have no problem with the idea that God allowed dominion over the seas to some divine being, who made himself known to men as Poseidon, Triton, and a host of other names. B. Considering that those words were not written down (on paper, that is), until quite some time after the event, and that they have since been copied, recopied, translated, and retranslated god-knows how many times, I don’t think anyone can say whether or not god actually used those words; however, I interpret that passage to mean exactly what it says. We are not to place any other god ahead of God. Short, simple, and to the point. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/19 "2007-05-25T14:16:53Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] But the part I don’t understand isn’t about the worshiping of or in front of graven images - it’s the making them part. It just seems so very clear: “(8)You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;” See the semicolon? Means that side of the sentence stands on its own merits. The prohibition against worshiping graven idols, which comes next: “(9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,” is _in addition to_, not instead of, \*making \*said graven images So in addition to the religious symbols I’ve already mentioned, a stone bird, a statue of a fish or statues of revolutionary war heroes should all be anathema. That’s the gymnastics I’ve never heard explained. They all seem to skip over that first part and jump right to the worship issue. [/QUOTE] Well, I’d take the second quoted verse as continuing the subject of the first one, explaining why you’re not to make these things and what they’re not to be used for. I doubt the semicolon was there in the original - indeed, I’d stake next month’s beer money that it wasn’t - and as to its meaning in the translation you cite, I’d interpret it as some style guide I read once; it might have been Fowler, or Gowers’s _Complete Plain Words_; that the semicolon just brings to an end of the list of things that you must not make to use as worship objects. (A bit like how I just used semicolons in that last sentence.) For myself, I have small use for icons of any kind. I don’t even wear a plain cross, let alone one “with the little man on it”, I don’t have a cross in the house, and I’m as happy to pray in an empty room as anywhere else. But I’m happy to accommodate other people’s sensibilities; and I don’t feel out of place in a cathedral full of bells and smells; still less do I feel the need to cry “Idolatry!” on those who find them comforting. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425/20 "2007-05-25T14:32:19Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] My apologies for choosing three obviously religious images for my first examples; it only served to muddy the waters by putting the focus on the worship angle. As I replied above, a reading of the commandment seems to indicate that any graven image, worshiped or not, is prohibited by your God. [/QUOTE] You’re depending on English grammar rules pertaining to one semicolon in a 20th Century English translation of thousands-of-years-old text from another language and think that’s relevant or definitive? It’s not. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-people-of-faith-other-gods/405425.md?page=2)