# A question for those that call themselves "Christian" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219 "2017-03-02T17:38:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/101 "2017-03-11T21:28:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [In a post in another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20037906&postcount=14) someone said , and I ask how one can tell the difference? What exactly defines one as a “True Christian”, and not one in name only? > I can only ask, but it would be nice if self-designated non Christians waited a bit before jumping in. There is no one way to define what a “True Christian” is. To get as basic as possible, a “Christian” is a person who believes that Jesus, aka as “the Christ”, lived on Earth and died to save humanity from their sins. Queen Elixabeth I, of all people, is supposed to have summed things up by saying _“there is only one Christ, Jesus, one faith. All else is a dispute over trifles”_ In 1991 there was a highly fictionalized miniseries, “Young Catherine” about the early life of Catherine the Great in Russia. But one scene struck a chord with me in a show that was otherwise rather silly. Catherine is pondering the consequences of converting from her German Lutheran faith to Russian Orthodoxy. A priest explains it isn’t so bad by telling her a parable. He asks if she knows how a pearl is made, and explains that a grain of sand gets inside the oyster shell, which the oyster finds uncomfortable. It gets coated over with a covering and becomes a pearl. The priest compares the words of Jesus with the grain of sand, which people then coat over in their own ways. But if you break open the pearl you still have the same origin. That is good enough for me. It lets people make their own interpretations of Christianity for themselves to follow. But to get hung up on particular actions that define a “True Christian” is imposing their beliefs on others and is not correct. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/102 "2017-03-12T04:43:27Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > There is no one way to define what a “True Christian” is. > > To get as basic as possible, a “Christian” is a person who believes that Jesus, aka as “the Christ”, lived on Earth and died to save humanity from their sins. > > Queen Elixabeth I, of all people, is supposed to have summed things up by saying _“there is only one Christ, Jesus, one faith. All else is a dispute over trifles”_ > > In 1991 there was a highly fictionalized miniseries, “Young Catherine” about the early life of Catherine the Great in Russia. But one scene struck a chord with me in a show that was otherwise rather silly. > > Catherine is pondering the consequences of converting from her German Lutheran faith to Russian Orthodoxy. A priest explains it isn’t so bad by telling her a parable. He asks if she knows how a pearl is made, and explains that a grain of sand gets inside the oyster shell, which the oyster finds uncomfortable. It gets coated over with a covering and becomes a pearl. The priest compares the words of Jesus with the grain of sand, which people then coat over in their own ways. But if you break open the pearl you still have the same origin. > > That is good enough for me. It lets people make their own interpretations of Christianity for themselves to follow. But to get hung up on particular actions that define a “True Christian” is imposing their beliefs on others and is not correct. Of course, this is very far from normative Russian Orthodoxy, which holds that the whole pearl (scripture and tradition both) constitute an integrated whole, and that _everything the church has defined_ via its councils is as Divine in its origin as the words of Jesus. Maybe Catherine had an unusually liberal priest or more likely she figured Moscow was worth a Divine Liturgy. ---
**Author:** ![truthseeker3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@truthseeker3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthseeker3)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/103 "2017-03-12T10:40:58Z")
I’m going to go with what’s already been said: it’s how well a person follows the commandments, which is hard to gauge from outside and ultimately a matter for God (though I can’t help wondering about the people I see only at Christmas and/or Easter). PS. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > The purpose is curiosity … which I find a bit baffling. I mean, it’s great to try to understand others’ points of view and all; but finding Christians who are willing to talk at length about their faith isn’t exactly a herculean task. If I was an atheist, I’d totally be in the “Don’t encourage those people - they’ll just try harder to save you!” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/104 "2017-03-12T13:46:41Z")
Finding a variety of them who are willing to talk politely in one place isn’t all that easy, though. Personally I tend to like these threads of Czarcasm, they make me think about some very fundamental questions and teach me about how people from other backgrounds see them. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/105 "2017-03-13T05:45:58Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Of course, this is very far from normative Russian Orthodoxy, which holds that the whole pearl (scripture and tradition both) constitute an integrated whole, and that _everything the church has defined_ via its councils is as Divine in its origin as the words of Jesus. > > Maybe Catherine had an unusually liberal priest or more likely she figured Moscow was worth a Divine Liturgy. I did say it was highly fictionalized!😃 ---
**Author:** ![truthseeker3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@truthseeker3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthseeker3)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/106 "2017-03-13T10:37:21Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Personally I tend to like these threads of Czarcasm, they make me think about some very fundamental questions and teach me about how people from other backgrounds see them. +1 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/107 "2017-03-20T19:39:22Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Nope. You didn’t include “by whom”, nor “for what purpose”. The answers given by a Mormon for attending his marriage in the temple and by a Christian Unitarian for counting how much of the local school system is Christian, and whether it’s okay for the school to have a Christmas pageant would be very different. I think he did give a context, though, by quoting the post which inspired the question. That’s the context I responded to. I do value you actually thinking to include answers for more contexts, though. And, as a Christian myself, I will say that you did a good job. I also like these types of questions. I only don’t like it when it starts to feel a bit snarky and bad. I think Czarcasm is doing a good job of keeping this respectful and inquisitive, rather than accusatory, as this discussion often goes. And I have no interest in converting anyone in this particular thread. I presume that everyone involved has been exposed to the information and made their own choice. The command is to preach the Gospel, not to hassle people over it. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/108 "2017-03-20T19:49:22Z")
> [@truthseeker3](#): > > > [@Nava](#): > > > > Personally I tend to like these threads of Czarcasm, they make me think about some very fundamental questions and teach me about how people from other backgrounds see them. > > +1 +2 … we’ve just about got **Czarcasm** reeled in … let’s keep the line tight … don’t want him throwing the hook yet … not until we gaff him … ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/109 "2017-03-20T20:08:24Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > +2 … we’ve just about got **Czarcasm** reeled in … let’s keep the line tight … don’t want him throwing the hook yet … not until we gaff him … I wouldn’t be throwing that hook just yet until y’all gain consensus on what rod, reel and bait to use. There seems to be a _slight_ bit of difference when it comes to definitions going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/110 "2017-03-20T20:11:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think he did give a context, though, by quoting the post which inspired the question. That’s the context I responded to. > > I do value you actually thinking to include answers for more contexts, though. And, as a Christian myself, I will say that you did a good job. > > I also like these types of questions. I only don’t like it when it starts to feel a bit snarky and bad. I think Czarcasm is doing a good job of keeping this respectful and inquisitive, rather than accusatory, as this discussion often goes. > > And I have no interest in converting anyone in this particular thread. I presume that everyone involved has been exposed to the information and made their own choice. The command is to preach the Gospel, not to hassle people over it. Much appreciated. I very occasionally might ask for clarification on a point, but if you say you believe something I’m going to take you at your word. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/111 "2017-03-20T20:30:07Z")
I’m Mormon. Pretty much all Mormons think of themselves as Christians, but a lot of Christians don’t consider Mormons to be “true Christians”. Amongst the Mormons themselves, there are all sorts of shades of gray. [The LDS Church reported that it had 15,634,199 as of 12/31/2015](https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/statistical-report-2015?lang=eng). Some of those are young children, some are “inactive members” that haven’t been to church in months, years, or even decades. Others attend church almost every week and hold a current “temple recommend” (i.e. very active participants in the Church). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/112 "2017-03-21T01:24:42Z")
> [@HumbleThinker](#): > > Jefferson explicitly said he wasn’t a Christian. > [@Thomas Jefferson](#): > > I am Christian, in the only sense in which [Jesus] wished any one to be. What you mean to say is that Thomas Jefferson had beliefs which are incompatible with _your_ definition of a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/113 "2017-03-21T13:43:39Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Maybe Catherine had an unusually liberal priest or more likely she figured Moscow was worth a Divine Liturgy. The religious attitudes of the past are not usually well understood in modern fiction. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/114 "2017-03-21T13:46:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m Mormon. Pretty much all Mormons think of themselves as Christians, but a lot of Christians don’t consider Mormons to be “true Christians”. There is a passage in the book “The Blind Side” in which Michael Oher’s adoptive father is dealing with people at a school in Utah, signing up Oher (who, incidentally, was not the clueless oaf the movie version suggests he was) for correspondence courses so he can get into college. He blithely comments, “Gosh, what nice people. Too bad they’re all going to hell.” And he totally means it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/115 "2017-03-21T14:21:18Z")
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve lost interest in all of the theological debates that used to be able to draw me in. Including who is and who isn’t a Christian. At the end of the parable of the good Samaritan, Jesus asks, “Who was neighbor to this man?” That’s the only question that matters. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219/116 "2017-03-21T14:49:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > As I’ve gotten older, I’ve lost interest in all of the theological debates that used to be able to draw me in. Including who is and who isn’t a Christian. > > At the end of the parable of the good Samaritan, Jesus asks, “Who was neighbor to this man?” That’s the only question that matters. Yeah, as a middle aged atheist nowadays I’m about as interested in the intricacies of the various Christian flavours as I am in learning Elvish. How people act is all that matters not where they stand on the trinity. I don’t begrudge him his interest but I am a little baffled that after all this time Czarcasm still likes these kinds of threads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-that-call-themselves-christian/781219.md?page=5)