# A question for those who lean left... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287 "2010-09-27T23:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenner116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecb155/32.png) [@kenner116](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenner116)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/21 "2010-09-28T06:05:59Z")
It’s not about left or right, but the current state of the economy. It’s the reason the Dems won two years ago, and is the reason they will lose this November. It’s not complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/22 "2010-09-28T09:30:20Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > > > Is Richard Nixon “sensible”? > > Nope, like I was trying to say, there was never ever any republican that ever increased the deficit, or instituted wage and price controls like the socialist Obama wants to do, or proposed health care reform remotely like the bill that was just passed. Weird. Health Care: 1. The health care plan that passed was a variant of the plan put forth by Mitt Romney (R) or Massachusetts. FYI. Deficit: 2. TARP was passed under George Bush. Obama inherited the worst recession since WWII, largely due to regulatory failure. It’s not surprising that a large stimulus package would be required. Nonetheless, state level contraction has largely offset federal expansion: the stimulus hasn’t been all that much, actually. We need more. ## Wage and Price Controls: 3. Nixon instituted a price freeze. Nixon was a Republican. Assertions that Obama would do so are pure paranoia. I’ll ask for a cite on that: it should be entertaining. Re: The OP: As others have noted, a) midterm losses are the rule, not the exception and 2) larger midterm losses occur during recessions. Obama’s mistake was not leaning too far left: rather he and Congress made the stimulus package too small, and put insufficient effort into filling 3 vacant slots at the Federal Reserve in the face of Republican mendacity. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/23 "2010-09-28T10:02:46Z")
Psst. I’m pretty sure Ludovic knows all that ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/24 "2010-09-28T12:02:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > He simply wants to know whether, if the elections don’t go their way, does that mean congress and the current administration are too far left for most of the people in this country who vote. > > So, can we get a "_Hell, yeah!_ " Yet you are incapable of offering any reason why the poor economy is tied to liberal policies or the Obama administration. It is nothing more than an article of faith with you. Conservative, _gooood!_ Liberal, _baaaaaad!_ That is the sum total of your argument, which reasonable people find unpersuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/25 "2010-09-28T13:00:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > > > Indulge for a moment in this hypothetical scenario: Come November 2nd the Democrats lose control of one or both houses of Congress. > > > > As an intellectually honest left-leaning citizen, and setting aside all personal preferences, could you agree to the following explanation: the current administration and congress leaned too far left for the electorate? > > Can anybody here give this man a straight answer? He asked if the Dems lose one or both of the houses does that mean the administration and congress are too far left for the _electorate_! > > He didn’t ask if they were “far left” in fact, or if they were left compared with the handful of countries in Europe that people here love to point to as being the political norm. He didn’t ask about details of the bailout, he didn’t ask about the machinations of the media, and he didn’t ask about the activities of and/or the makeup of the Tea Party, and he didn’t ask who would win the White House in 2014. He simply wants to know whether, if the elections don’t go their way, does that mean congress and the current administration are too far left for most of the people in this country who vote. > > So, can we get a "_Hell, yeah!_ " > > Didn’t think so. 😛 **SpoilerVirgin** gave a reasonable answer, but I guess you ignored that because it doesn’t agree with your worldview. The problem is that if you asked large portions of the electorate if the Obama administration was too far left for them they would say ‘hell yes, he’s a Socialist’ without any understanding of what that means, what policies they are talking about, or even whether they might actually support those policies themselves if they were explained to them without the partisan bullshit. The political debate in America has degenerated to such a point that the actual polices are unimportant. Besides, issues of political ideology never, ever decide elections. It’s all about the economy, farcical ‘social values’, misperception, personality and tribalism. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/26 "2010-09-28T13:21:22Z")
To directly answer the first post: no. The average person would be better right now with some kind of employment. If we could do it over again, the TARP would have created a second WPA to keep us afloat. When better jobs come back in the private sector, people slide over and fill those jobs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/27 "2010-09-28T14:05:46Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > There were far left policies enacted? I must not have seen the news that day. Apparently elected officials just occasionally, and mostly off the record, **talking** about **moderate** left policies was scary enough. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/28 "2010-09-28T14:49:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Can anybody here give this man a straight answer? He asked if the Dems lose one or both of the houses does that mean the administration and congress are too far left for the _electorate_! > > He didn’t ask if they were “far left” in fact, or if they were left compared with the handful of countries in Europe that people here love to point to as being the political norm. He didn’t ask about details of the bailout, he didn’t ask about the machinations of the media, and he didn’t ask about the activities of and/or the makeup of the Tea Party, and he didn’t ask who would win the White House in 2014. He simply wants to know whether, if the elections don’t go their way, does that mean congress and the current administration are too far left for most of the people in this country who vote. > > So, can we get a "_Hell, yeah!_ " > > Didn’t think so. 😛 Okay, but what are you talking about? Whether the actual policies are too far left for the electorate, or whether the electorate thinks the Democrats are too far left because they’ve been lied to constantly about who Obama is and what his political stances are? Because Obama is NOT a leftist. Nothing he’s done is “too far left” by any objective standard. If anything, he’s a centrist who’s continued quite a few of the more egregious Bush administration attacks against civil liberties and has melted under the onslaught of lies and attack ads when it comes to actual domestic policies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/29 "2010-09-28T14:56:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Can anybody here give this man a straight answer? He asked if the Dems lose one or both of the houses does that mean the administration and congress are too far left for the _electorate_! That question was straight-answered in the negative in post #2, with which I substantially agree. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/30 "2010-09-28T15:14:18Z")
I think the majority of Democratic losses can be attributed to the sluggish economy and the party’s utter inability to form a coherent message in the face of shameless pandering and dishonesty by the opposition. Death panels and Birth certificates, feh. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/31 "2010-09-28T15:15:51Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > As an intellectually honest left-leaning citizen, and setting aside all personal preferences, could you agree to the following explanation: the current administration and congress leaned too far left for the electorate? First of all, I predicted to myself on election day 2008 that 2010 would be a disaster for the Democrats because there was no way the utter catastrophe created by the Bush administration could be cleared up to any extent by then. Second, the Obama administration has been nearly as conservative as the Bush administration, so it’s impossible that the Democratic party’s current state has anything to do with being “too far left.” Third, the policies that are now being labeled as “too far left” by the right now are policies that the right itself advocated just a couple of years ago. It’s all just propaganda bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/32 "2010-09-28T15:53:27Z")
I think a far more liberal president would have somewhat blunted the losses they are sure to have this year. It’s not just Republican enthusiasm that they have going against them this year, its Democrats lack of it because we got nothing of what we really wanted. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/33 "2010-09-28T17:10:22Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think a far more liberal president would have somewhat blunted the losses they are sure to have this year. It’s not just Republican enthusiasm that they have going against them this year, its Democrats lack of it because we got nothing of what we really wanted. I agree perfectly . . . but that raises an interesting strategic question for 2012. Should the left-progressive wing try its own “Tea Party” movement to take control from the established Dem leadership? In all probability, that would only produce left-insurgent nominees who would have little chance in the general election – just as with most Tea Party nominees this year. But if the left-progressive wing does **not** try to take control, what can we expect out of a post-2012 Congress or WH but more of the same? It is a puzzlement. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/34 "2010-09-28T18:13:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I agree perfectly . . . but that raises an interesting strategic question for 2012. Should the left-progressive wing try its own “Tea Party” movement to take control from the established Dem leadership? In all probability, that would only produce left-insurgent nominees who would have little chance in the general election – just as with most Tea Party nominees this year. But if the left-progressive wing does **not** try to take control, what can we expect out of a post-2012 Congress or WH but more of the same? It is a puzzlement. As frustrating as it is for those of us on the left to be patient while incremental change happens, imagine how much more frustrating it is for those on the right, who are demographically losing what little remains of their ideology as slowly as we’re gaining ours. I do believe that’s a major root of the Tea Party pathology, actually. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/35 "2010-09-28T18:16:17Z")
The argument distills down to whether you believe the Fox mantra that America is a slightly right leaning country. I do not. When the people were energized last election , they showed a powerful rejection of the right wing Bush/Repub agenda. The problem is we expected a strong effort for change. We are upset because Obama did not do enough of it. Somehow we did not anticipate the Repubs would vote against every damn program as a bloc . Who could side with the financial whores and bankers that trashed the world economy against the benefit of the people? The Repubs. Who would back the health care companies that helped make an industry that delivered poor health care at huge prices. The Repubs. Who insisted that 1/3rd of the stimulus to save the economy had to be another stupid tax cut that increases the deficit? The Repubs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/36 "2010-09-28T18:29:38Z")
No. The Obama adminstration has been moderately conservative. If anything, he’s bent over backwars to try to please the right. Even the Health Care bill was a Republican bill. there just isn’t any justification for arguing that Obama has been at all leftist. Any change in the midterms will be partly a function of the normal dynamic that follows the election of a new President (the out party is more motivated to go out and vote than the in party and gets more people showing up at the polls), and partly a result of a sustained (and really unprecedented) right wing media campaign to demonize Obama beyond all reason. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/37 "2010-09-28T18:47:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No. The Obama adminstration has been moderately conservative. If anything, he’s bent over backwars to try to please the right. Even the Health Care bill was a Republican bill. there just isn’t any justification for arguing that Obama has been at all leftist. Any change in the midterms will be partly a function of the normal dynamic that follows the election of a new President (the out party is more motivated to go out and vote than the in party and gets more people showing up at the polls), and partly a result of a sustained (and really unprecedented) right wing media campaign to demonize Obama beyond all reason. I’d say the economy will play a large part also. A lot of Obama supporters really did expect for him to come into power, wave his huge black dick around and fix the country in about three months, the fact that did this not happen is going to make a lot of them stay home this time around. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/38 "2010-09-28T18:51:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No. The Obama adminstration has been moderately conservative. If anything, he’s bent over backwars to try to please the right. Nitpick: I think you mean “forwards.” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/39 "2010-09-28T19:20:23Z")
I think many of these answers are good (some more than others). No election is summed up by one catch-phrase. They are a reflection of the predominate issues of the day combined with the perceived performance (note: not necessarily ideology) of the party in power on those issues. Currently those are the economy (jobs in particular), and poor, respectively. I will offer this counter-question though, if the OP will oblige: **Did the Democratic victories of 2006 and 2008 mean that the Bush administration and GOP-controlled Congress leaned too far to the right of the electorate?** I think you will find your answer to that question is largely in line with liberals’ answers concerning the upcoming election. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287/40 "2010-09-28T19:34:51Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > I agree perfectly . . . but that raises an interesting strategic question for 2012. Should the left-progressive wing try its own “Tea Party” movement to take control from the established Dem leadership? In all probability, that would only produce left-insurgent nominees who would have little chance in the general election – just as with most Tea Party nominees this year. But if the left-progressive wing does **not** try to take control, what can we expect out of a post-2012 Congress or WH but more of the same? It is a puzzlement. > > As frustrating as it is for those of us on the left to be patient while incremental change happens, imagine how much more frustrating it is for those on the right, who are demographically losing what little remains of their ideology as slowly as we’re gaining ours. I do believe that’s a major root of the Tea Party pathology, actually. Agreed. In the 1890s, a new religion called the [“Ghost Dance”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dance) swept through the Plains Indians nations. They seem to have had the idea that if enough of them danced the Ghost Dance, the palefaces would just go away and everything would be as it was before they came. The Tea Party is the Ghost Dance of the American right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-for-those-who-lean-left/555287.md?page=3)