# A Question Regarding Roman Armor **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671 "2011-09-08T23:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/21 "2011-09-09T16:59:59Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Thanks. Surprisingly little protection for one’s dong. Especially if you have a _biggus dickus_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/22 "2011-09-09T18:01:53Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > I’m sorry, but this is pretty much 100% unadulterated prime quality manure. I think you have a case of your personal “Seg” being crap, rather than all of them. A real Seg is held together by leather straps. There are no stitches anywhere. You are supposed to make it so it fits tightly around your upper body, distributing the weight evenly. The only padding needed is a leather reinforcement on the shoulders and some cloth around your neck. > > I’ve worn mine for a week on end, 8 hour days, on several different occasions. I’ve dug trenches in it, slept in it, fought mock battles in it, been beaten to hell by spears, glaives, axes, swords, shields and angry swedes for several days in a row. I’ve never - not once - damaged it in any way shape or form other than slight dents and scratches. The only maintenance needed - which can, I’ll admit, be time-consuming - is oiling and rust-removal. > > You put in on just like you would a vest. You buckle a strap across your chest, and knot five laces down front. Takes three minutes. Easiest armor I’ve ever put. > > It’s faster if you have someone to hold it up while you put your arms where the arms are meant to go, but we generally do that for each other anyway. > > A roman Hamata (chain) weighs somewhere between three and four times as much as a Seg, and doesn’t distribute that weight at all. All of it is on your shoulders. It’s a royal PITA to put on, because it weighs too much to just but on like t-shirt, and you have to do a weird, bent-over dancing and hopping maneuver to get it off. Never again. From the description, lorica segmentada sounds like the sperior armor. So why was it abandoned? Was there a lack of skilled smiths in the 2nd century? Or was it the general decay of the Roman Army that dictated more primative gear? ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/23 "2011-09-09T18:48:15Z")
Well, mail is dead easy to make. I could teach you in about 20 minutes. So local production could be up and running with mostly unskilled workers fairly quickly after supply lines broke down. Granted, it takes longer then the Seg (8 hours by a skilled armourer/30 hours by a beginner, versus 100 hours either way for the Hamata). However, there was a surplus of labor back then, so that won’t have been any great issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/24 "2011-09-11T00:51:17Z")
Mail is also more one-size-fits-all than bands or any sort of plate. Banded armor has to be fitted to the wearer, but chainmail just sort of drapes over any body shape. So if a mail-clad soldier died, someone else could go on wearing his old armor, but if a banded-clad soldier died, it might not be worth the trouble to re-fit it. Anecdotally, I can also add that although I’ve never worn any real armor, fake cardboard _lorica segmentata_ is a heck of a lot more comfortable than fake cardboard plate. The flexibility also gives it durability: Even doing flips in the cardboard _lorica_, it just flexed and stayed undamaged. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/25 "2011-09-12T13:34:30Z")
Does quality of the metal make a difference in choosing mail or banded armor? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/26 "2011-09-12T13:50:10Z")
Not a historian but knew one (or someone clamining to be one). He said Lorica segmentata was superior but more expensive which is why it was abandoned. Also something about the enemies they fought earlier in the Republic/Empire were more sensitive to quality differences and so few could beat many but later on you needed more boots (or sandals) in the field as the enemies were more on equal terms. (barbarians who learned under the Romans and such). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/27 "2011-09-12T18:52:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Especially if you have a _biggus dickus_. 😉 Watch it! Still a few crosses left. BTW, I highly recommend this book, written as if it were a guide for a new recruit to Rome’s storied legions: [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/Legionary-Soldiers-Unofficial-Manual-Manuals/dp/0500251517/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315853587&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/28 "2011-09-13T22:33:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I know, I know. Doesn’t mean I’ll stop tilting at that particular windmill. Minor nitpick – there are no “windmills” per se in the Netherlands. What you’re no doubt thinking of are called “windmolen”. Look, I know you’re going to keep tilting at them (and, please, _do_ maintain the proper _12º_ angle from the perpendicular when doing so). But make sure you use the perfect word, or the Dutch Masters will give you a Dutch Rub right on your Little Dutch Boy. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/29 "2011-09-14T00:02:17Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Minor nitpick – there are no “windmills” per se in the Netherlands. What you’re no doubt thinking of are called “windmolen”. > > Look, I know you’re going to keep tilting at them (and, please, _do_ maintain the proper _12º_ angle from the perpendicular when doing so). But make sure you use the perfect word, or the Dutch Masters will give you a Dutch Rub right on your Little Dutch Boy. Huh? Since when is\*\* Alessan \*\*dutch? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/30 "2011-09-14T00:20:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Watch it! Still a few crosses left. > > BTW, I highly recommend this book, written as if it were a guide for a new recruit to Rome’s storied legions: [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/Legionary-Soldiers-Unofficial-Manual-Manuals/dp/0500251517/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315853587&sr=1-1) I second this recommendation. The book is full of good stuff, like this excerpt from the chapter entitled “People Who Will Want to Kill You”: > [@](#): > > One advantage of Judea being a Roman province is that you will understand most of the insults being hurled at you, of which _Romani ite domum_ is likely to be among the least cruel and hurtful. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/31 "2011-09-14T00:27:19Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > II’ve worn mine for a week on end, 8 hour days, on several different occasions. I’ve dug trenches in it, slept in it, fought mock battles in it, been beaten to hell by spears, glaives, axes, swords, shields and\*\* angry swedes\*\* for several days in a row. I’ve never - not once - damaged it in any way shape or form other than slight dents and scratches. The only maintenance needed - which can, I’ll admit, be time-consuming - is oiling and rust-removal. (Emphasis mine.) Someone was hitting you with turnips? ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/32 "2011-09-14T01:00:47Z")
[QUOTE=Morgyn] Someone was hitting you with turnips? [/QUOTE] No. People from Sweden, who were upset about something or other, were hitting me with a variety of blunt objects. Although we did _eat_ turnips at that same occasion, which could be argued as a rather interesting case of cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/33 "2011-09-14T01:13:36Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > No. People from Sweden, who were upset about something or other, were hitting me with a variety of blunt objects. Although we did _eat_ turnips at that same occasion, which could be argued as a rather interesting case of cannibalism. Oh. \*By \*angry Swedes. That’s somewhat less entertaining than the idea you were being hit \*with \*angry Swedes. Some sort of catapult involved perhaps, or maybe a drunk Finn (yes, I know, pleonasm)… ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/34 "2011-09-14T01:37:36Z")
[QUOTE=Kobal2] Oh. By angry Swedes. That’s somewhat less entertaining than the idea you were being hit with angry Swedes. Some sort of catapult involved perhaps, or maybe a drunk Finn (yes, I know, pleonasm)… [/QUOTE] I better make it up to you. Stories involving catapults…hmm. Well, we once got attacked by shell shocked swans after firing a catapult at their young. Damnedest thing I ever saw - the daddy swan (which is what we city people call them - I’m sure male swans have a name) attacked our glass veranda door, scratched a car to hell, and shat several tons of guano all over the place. We had to line up five big guys in full gear, shields and all, to drive them off. Those birds are _scary_. We didn’t even do it on purpose, let alone hit them. Drunk Finns have never, in any shape, form or fashion, bothered me whatsoever, mores the pity in my single days. Damn geeky guys, they’re always gentlemen. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/35 "2011-09-14T07:51:22Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > I better make it up to you. Stories involving catapults…hmm. > > Well, we once got attacked by shell shocked swans after firing a catapult at their young. Damnedest thing I ever saw - the daddy swan (which is what we city people call them - I’m sure male swans have a name) attacked our glass veranda door, scratched a car to hell, and shat several tons of guano all over the place. We had to line up five big guys in full gear, shields and all, to drive them off. Those birds are _scary_. We didn’t even do it on purpose, let alone hit them. A cob, you troglodyte 😉 > [@Septima](#): > > Drunk Finns have never, in any shape, form or fashion, bothered me whatsoever, mores the pity in my single days. Damn geeky guys, they’re always gentlemen. If you’ve never had an encounter with a drunk mad raving Finn in a berserker frenzy, preferably dressed in merely a far too small towel and brandishing a birch branch in one hand and a bottle of Miintu in the other, I sympathize. Though harrowing, the experience is memorable. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671/36 "2011-09-14T10:54:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A minor nitpick - there’s no such think as “chainmail”. The correct term is simply “mail”; terms like “banded mail”, “scale mail” and “plate mail” (rather than “plate-and-mail”) are all Gygaxian on origin and are historically incorrect. Aside from what everybody else has said, “mail” is an equally inadequate term since the Romans evidently felt themselves too special to learn and use English.😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-question-regarding-roman-armor/595671.md?page=1)