# A Questionable British Gesture **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584 "2004-06-04T04:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![citrus\_x\_paradisi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@citrus\_x\_paradisi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citrus_x_paradisi)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/1 "2004-06-04T04:30:34Z")
The lyrics from the Streets’ songs have enlightened me to a lot of Brit slang, but one reference from the song “Empty Cans” just went over my head. Here’s the confusing part-- the context is that the protagonist thinks a television repairman is trying to wring more money out of him. _I knew it was a simple case of the power supply gone on the back, but he’s trying to tap me up for more money. He says its not like that and I’m like fuck off and die, **And stick up my two fingers and one more to make three**._ Okay, not the most scholarly stanza ever committed to the English language, but that aside… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Daver914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Daver914](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daver914)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/2 "2004-06-04T05:30:55Z")
I understand the two fingers (British version of the American middle finger), but _three_!? Brits, help us out here… ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/3 "2004-06-04T05:40:41Z")
Simple. Two fingers on one hand (UK insult) and one finger on the other hand (US insult). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/4 "2004-06-04T05:46:32Z")
I would take it to mean he’s sticking up an additional finger just to emphasise the point. That, and they needed a rhyme for “money”. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/5 "2004-06-04T07:52:04Z")
As an ignorant American, I have to ask - which two fingers are rude? ---
**Author:** ![Daver914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Daver914](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daver914)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/6 "2004-06-04T07:56:05Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > As an ignorant American, I have to ask - which two fingers are rude? Think of a peace sign or “V for Victory”, but with the hand turned the other way (palm facing you). Now do it quickly with a flicking motion and a few choice words, and you’ve got it. (I owe that bit of my cultural education to _Red Dwarf_) ---
**Author:** ![fezpp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fezpp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fezpp)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/7 "2004-06-04T07:58:59Z")
First finger and middle finger. Known colloquially as ‘Giving the Vs’. ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/8 "2004-06-04T08:26:22Z")
> [@fezpp](#): > > First finger and middle finger. Known colloquially as ‘Giving the Vs’. Used to be known as ‘Farewell to the foreman’ ---
**Author:** ![Kymodoce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8797f3/32.png) [@Kymodoce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kymodoce)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/9 "2004-06-04T09:36:25Z")
Also known as a ‘Harvey Smith’, after a horseriding celebrity of the same name used it (in)famously on TV (many years ago when such things were rather less accepted). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/10 "2004-06-04T09:55:02Z")
Well I’m a Brit and I’ve been puzzling that line since I heard it. I like the two-hand theory - flipping the bird is now pretty rude this side of the pond too. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/11 "2004-06-04T10:11:48Z")
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone over the age of 14 “giving the Vs” in all seriousness in the last 25 years at least. It’s very dated, barely objectionable, and used more in humour than anything else. Kind of futile. (Ho, Ho. Making this joke before anyone else does.) ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/12 "2004-06-04T10:22:16Z")
And before anyone says so, it’s nothing to do with English archers having those two fingers cut off after being captured by the French. If you weren’t worth ransoming you were summarily _executed_, not maimed and released. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/13 "2004-06-04T11:26:06Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I don’t think I’ve seen anyone over the age of 14 “giving the Vs” in all seriousness in the last 25 years at least. I guess Liam Gallagher _does_ count as under-14. As for the OP, I’ve no idea, but I suspect it may be some hint at a crude sexual comment. Or maybe I’m just perverted :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/14 "2004-06-04T11:32:57Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > And before anyone says so, it’s nothing to do with English archers having those two fingers cut off after being captured by the French. If you weren’t worth ransoming you were summarily _executed_, not maimed and released. You do realise that the Snopes article on that debunks the wrong myth? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/15 "2004-06-04T11:56:19Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I don’t think I’ve seen anyone over the age of 14 “giving the Vs” in all seriousness in the last 25 years at least. You didn’t see the odious Kitten going into the Big Brother house last week then? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/16 "2004-06-04T12:01:51Z")
> [@](#): > > You do realise that the Snopes article on that debunks the wrong myth? Ah, [found it](http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm). Heh heh, yes that is doubly silly. “Pluck yew” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/17 "2004-06-04T12:03:57Z")
[Evidence!](http://bigbrother.channel4.com/bigbrother/latest-pics/index-page2.html) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/18 "2004-06-04T12:19:44Z")
No, the problem with the Snopes article isn’t the silly ‘pluck yew’ thing - it’s that the real myth didn’t involve cutting off fingers at all, but simply that English knights would wave their two fingers at the French, showing off about their superior archery. Nothing in Snopes discredits this. ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/19 "2004-06-04T12:20:52Z")
I wouldn’t bother trying to make sense of anything The Streets say (in fact I’m a bit embarressed you’ve heard their stuff in the States), most of it is simply to rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584/20 "2004-06-04T13:59:42Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You didn’t see the odious Kitten going into the Big Brother house last week then? :dubious: And who took it seriously? I guess my “age of 14” qualification equally applies to all arrested at the mentality of a stroppy teenager. That includes Liam Gallagher. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-questionable-british-gesture/248584.md?page=2)