# a racist memorial **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418 "2002-08-31T06:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![im2evil4u](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@im2evil4u](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/im2evil4u)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/1 "2002-08-31T06:10:02Z")
A church in New Jersey has scheduled a memorial for the “Black-Americans” who lost their lives during 9/11. The sponsor of this event stated that “most people are under the impression that only white people suffered”. Am I the only one offended by this? “We all lost it together, regardless of race or religion” ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/2 "2002-08-31T06:21:10Z")
I would think most people DO feel that way. There are more white people in the US than anyone else, and people tend to think about things in terms of their own race. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/3 "2002-08-31T06:23:53Z")
I can honestly say that I have never given a single thought to the racial make-up of the people who died on 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![LolaBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@LolaBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaBaby)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/4 "2002-08-31T06:26:03Z")
I guess being a minority, I just felt it in terms of _people_ as a group…especially after seeing all the flyers for missing people and there were all different races present. However, I’m not really offended by what the person said. Sorry if that didn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![im2evil4u](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@im2evil4u](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/im2evil4u)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/5 "2002-08-31T06:46:25Z")
I also, have never thought of the racial make-up of people, regardless of the situation. This case that I mentioned bothers me. We were attcked as Americans - not irish-americans, not italian-americans, not asian-american, etc. This country was attacked. Why have a separate memorial? ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/6 "2002-08-31T08:11:14Z")
New York City is so multiethnic…_who_ exactly would think it was only “white people” (whatever that may mean to different people) who died there? I never had that impression. All the accounts of survivors and victims I’ve seen have included many black people for instance. I remember reading reports that hundreds of people from several other nationalities were killed too, Bangladeshis, Indians, British, Australians, Salvadorians…it wasn’t even just Americans. Also the airplanes had travelers from many places and backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/7 "2002-08-31T10:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*I would think most people DO feel that way. There are more white people in the US than anyone else, and people tend to think about things in terms of their own race. \*\* Thisis the first time I’ve heard that ANYBODY thought that only white people suffered in this. 'Most people", my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Mr\_Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Jinx)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/8 "2002-08-31T11:09:49Z")
I’d say the man is right. The next time you decide to watch a WWII movie (and I mean _any_ WWII movie) try playing spote the black soldier. I’ve never seen more than 3 black soldiers in any WWII movie. Most recently we’ve had Saving Private Ryan and Pearl Harbor. Now, both of these movies were epics, with _massive_ casts and _massive_ audiences. Guess how many black soldiers there are in both those movies combined. One. Cuba Gooding Junior is the only relevant black soldier in either of those movies (He was in Pearl Harbor if you’re interested) any other black characters were either (a) not soldiers or (b) 1 or 2 line standins. Come to think of it Cuba’s character may have had one black friend who has more than a couple of lines but that’s _it_. When America is faced with that kind of cultural whitewashing (so to speak) it is understandable that the general impression be that blacks didn’t suffer as much as whites during WWII (proportionately). This is an impression that needs to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/9 "2002-08-31T11:35:38Z")
This group is taking seriously the old joke about a headline in the New York Times (or sometimes the Washington Post) that reads _“World Ends; Women, Minorities Hardest Hit.”_ ---
**Author:** ![LolaBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@LolaBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaBaby)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/10 "2002-08-31T11:53:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by im2evil4u \* > \*\*I also, have never thought of the racial make-up of people, regardless of the situation. This case that I mentioned bothers me. We were attcked as Americans - not irish-americans, not italian-americans, not asian-american, etc. This country was attacked. Why have a separate memorial? \*\* I don’t know…I guess some people just need to identify…in order to deal with it. I won’t begrudge _anyone_ that at all. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/11 "2002-08-31T12:30:27Z")
But why can’t we all just be people? I mean, the memorial of the three firefighters who raised the flag…some group wanted to make one of the firefighters black, despite the fact that that wasn’t what happened. It happened to be three white firefighters who raised the flag. Shall we revise history just to be politically correct? Why do we need memorials for each ethnic group? Can’t we just have one, with all groups represented? Why does stuff like this have to be so divisive? For crying out loud…who the hell kept track of how many white black Asian Hispanic Greek Irish Iranian people were killed in the attack? And even if they did, WHO CARES?? They were all humans. Period. Sounds like this group is losing the importantce of what happened. We were attacked because we were Americans. What flavor didn’t matter to the terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/12 "2002-08-31T13:49:49Z")
**Mr. Jinx** , you do know that the armed forces were segregated until the late '40’s and that black soldiers, with a few very gallant exceptions, simply weren’t IN combat? People from eighty countries died in the WTC disaster. I live in NYC and nobody has ever concentrated on white or any other particular type of person who was killed. I have no problem with a black church offering a special service to commemorate the dead with an emphasis on the African-Americans who died; my largely Irish neighborhood will mention the 12 firemen we lost in our gathering that night, probably–but the reason they’re giving simply isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/13 "2002-08-31T13:51:06Z")
**Mr. Jinx** , you do know that the armed forces were segregated until the late '40’s and that black soldiers, with a few very gallant exceptions, simply weren’t IN combat? People from eighty countries died in the WTC disaster. I live in NYC and nobody has ever concentrated on white or any other particular type of person who was killed. I have no problem with a black church offering a special service to commemorate the dead with an emphasis on the African-Americans who died; my largely Irish neighborhood will mention the 12 firemen we lost in our gathering that night, probably–but the reason they’re giving simply isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/14 "2002-08-31T13:54:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr Jinx \* > \*\*I’d say the man is right. The next time you decide to watch a WWII movie (and I mean _any_ WWII movie) try playing spote the black soldier. I’ve never seen more than 3 black soldiers in any WWII movie. Most recently we’ve had Saving Private Ryan and Pearl Harbor. Now, both of these movies were epics, with _massive_ casts and _massive_ audiences. Guess how many black soldiers there are in both those movies combined. > > One. > > Cuba Gooding Junior is the only relevant black soldier in either of those movies (He was in Pearl Harbor if you’re interested) any other black characters were either (a) not soldiers or (b) 1 or 2 line standins. Come to think of it Cuba’s character may have had one black friend who has more than a couple of lines but that’s _it_. > > When America is faced with that kind of cultural whitewashing (so to speak) it is understandable that the general impression be that blacks didn’t suffer as much as whites during WWII (proportionately). This is an impression that needs to be corrected. \*\* And because of this, you think there is a general impression in white america that only whites were killed on 9-11? Man, that’s a fucking stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/15 "2002-08-31T13:59:02Z")
Yikes, I didn’t mean to say that there weren’t plenty of black soldiers, so sorry. But the Army was indeed segregated and although plenty of black (and some white) politicians and social activists were agitating for integration, there were lots of obstacles: [http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/integration/IAF-02.htm](http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/integration/IAF-02.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/16 "2002-08-31T14:28:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Thisis the first time I’ve heard that ANYBODY thought that only white people suffered in this. > > 'Most people", my ass. \*\* Well, maybe your ass is too enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/17 "2002-08-31T14:36:57Z")
Yeah, that strikes me as odd as well. Those airplanes were aimed at two buildings, not the members of a paticular group of humanity. Death is certainly not a racist. But, if he wants to keep the fires of racial agitation burning, I don’t suppose we can stop him, now can we? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/18 "2002-08-31T14:52:36Z")
World War 2 movies are a bad example because, as **Mehitabel** pointed out, the American services were segregated. _A Soldier’s Story_ is one of the best WW2 movies touching on this subject, though _Glory_ (about the U.S. Civil War) wasn’t bad either, though I personally dislike Matthew Broderick. Putting black combatant characters in a WW2 movie when there is no historical reason to do so is craven PC bootlicking and, I believe, can ruin the movie completely. In sharp contrast, every Vietnam movie since at least _Platoon_ has featured (historically supported) numerous black characters. Often at least one of them is complaining about having to fight in a “white man’s war”. This may end up becoming a Vietnam War movie cliché, like the WW2 soldier named “Dutch” who gets shot by a sniper moments after showing his buddies pictures of his wife and family. If someone wants to stage a memorial to black victims of Sept. 11, let 'em. It’s not like you have to pay for it or show up or anything. I can’t imagine anyone finding this offensive, unless that person is a putz. Now, creating an [altered version](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/memorial.htm) of the famous photograph of the three (white) firemen raising a flag was something I _did_ find vaguely offensive, since it reinforces something that is demonstrably fake. There is no indication that the New Jersey church memorial plans to do any such revision, so leave 'em alone. There’s enough suffering to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/19 "2002-08-31T19:19:06Z")
BTW, **Mr Jinx** -ever see “The Tuskegee Airmen?” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418/20 "2002-08-31T19:41:35Z")
If the local Greek Orthodox church held a memorial, would you all be offended? How about the Irish League? Benevolent socities of all sorts do this sort of thing all the time. These people’s community got hit. Chances are, people lost loved ones and role models. People need to mourn, and apparently the current memorials arn’t doing it for them. Can’t you let them mourn in peace? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-racist-memorial/126418.md?page=2)