# A rant against my own stupidity and self-neglect **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2002, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489 "2002-04-19T09:48:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/21 "2002-04-20T01:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*FA: Guess what? You just confessed to your usual practice being a Class 3 Felony (that’s assuming that “beside your seat” isn’t in clear view[sup]†[/sup]). I did a quick web search and found these two interesting sites: > [ul][li][http://www.dps.state.az.us/ccw/welcome.htm[/li][li]http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/arizona[/ul][/li]](http://www.dps.state.az.us/ccw/welcome.htm%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5Dhttp://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/arizona%5B/ul%5D%5B/li%5D) > According to the Department of Public Safety, if the weapon is in a holster, the holster must be visible or partially visible. Given your initial decision on the proper course of action to follow, I’m glad that California has different weapons laws. > > [sup]†[/sup]Here’s a hint for you: “Beside your seat” isn’t “in plain view.” “On your dashboard” is. p.s.: The thing obviously wouldn’t have even been in _your plain view_ had you had it with you! \*\* Well, **Monty** , there are a couple of problems here. First of all, 13-3112 is the concealed carry act, which is specifically referenced in 13-3102 “Misconduct involving weapons; defenses, classifications; definitions.” The portion you are specifically interested in (Subsection A, paragraph 2) defines what constitutes concealed carry and agrees with what I posted above. However, what I also posted above, about the gun being able to be carried concealed anywhere in the vehicle as long as it is carried in a holster is stated verbatim in subsection G, and states in relevant part: “Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage which is carried within a means of transportation…” Also, violation of paragraph 2 is a Class 1 misdemeanor. The Class 3 felony violations of 13-3102 exist for Subsection A paragraph 9 (firing at an occupied structure in order to further in interests of a criminal gang or syndicate) and for Subsection B, selling or providing a firearm to another party with reasonable suspicion that the party will use the firearm in commission of a felony. Do not presume to call me out as being ignorant of my state’s gun laws when you perform two minutes of half-assed research, sunshine. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/22 "2002-04-20T01:29:22Z")
Sorry, I omitted the link. Read up. [http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03102.htm](http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03102.htm) ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/23 "2002-04-20T01:34:43Z")
\*\*Alice]/b], that goes in with what I said in the section you quoted above about the trading a higher degree of victimization for a reduced risk of serious injury. Where are the baseball bat control people when you need them? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/24 "2002-04-20T01:39:50Z")
Why did I know we’d end up here. Give it a rest, guys. It has no answer and you’re just grinding metal. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/25 "2002-04-20T01:42:29Z")
Quick correction to a typo, it was subsection F, not G ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/26 "2002-04-20T01:50:48Z")
“Sunshine,” hey, punk? You go tooling around town thinking you’ve a fucking loaded weapon in your vehicle and when you encounter another asshole tooling around town actually with a fucking loaded weapon, you decide to dive for your fucking loaded weapon THAT’S NOT FUCKING THERE! You also have no idea what the posted speed limit is for the firing ranger…er, public road on which you intend to have this little shootout. You also decide that this emergency is so extreme that you’d rather get into an argument with someone on the phone instead of simply redialing 911. Which you could’ve easily done had you familiarized yourself with your freaking cell phone and had the thing programmed correctly to begin with. But apparently dialling 911 was so much more difficult than dialling 411. Poor baby. By the way, asshole…what’s your fucking plan of explanation when you actually do fire back at someone, miss them, and hit some innocent party ON THE FUCKING PUBLIC ROAD?! Also by the way, are you tooling around with a concealed carry permit? I took it that you’re not since you mentioned that Arizona is an “open carry” state. Now, you’re correct that violation of the CCW law is a misdemeanor; but violationg the open carry statute is a Class 3 felony. So, Rambo, which is it? Are you (a) a fucking moron, (b) a fucking moron, or © a fucking moron? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/27 "2002-04-20T01:57:01Z")
Now, I may have misconstrued what constitutes a felony, but for all the rest of the stuff I posted, I’ll stick with it. The answer for the little quiz above for FA is (a), (b), AND ©. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/28 "2002-04-20T02:00:45Z")
And I too thank my lucky stars that I live in a city/country where the headlines are more often about an AFL footy player who had an affair with his best mates wife. (we’ve got our priorities right dang it). Like, we have _news_ (sometimes) but crazy shootings aren’t up there too frequently. That’s 'cos we don’t have a laissez-faire policy with guns. ---
**Author:** ![Rye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e56c9b/32.png) [@Rye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rye)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/29 "2002-04-20T02:59:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Fallen Angel said: > > > [@](#): > > > > True, as things turned out I didn’t need and wouldn’t have had a chance to return fire, and if I’d had my pistol I wouldn’t have done anything differently. It’s not like I’m stupid enough to chase after the guys in a 70 mph shootout on the freeway or anything, > > FallenAngel repeats: > > > [@](#): > > > > Second, as I stated in my OP, it turned out that having my gun, in this instance, would not have made a > > difference. > [@](#): > > “Sunshine,” hey, punk? You go tooling around town thinking you’ve a fucking loaded weapon in your vehicle and when you encounter another asshole tooling around town actually with a fucking loaded weapon, you decide to dive for your fucking loaded weapon THAT’S NOT FUCKING THERE! > [@](#): > > But apparently dialling 911 was so much more difficult than dialling 411. Poor baby. > [@](#): > > I whip out the cell phone and punch 9 and Talk. I get “No Emergency Key” pop up as an error message. FUCK. **Then I hit 911 and Talk**. Fast busy. SHIT. Okay. I hit 411 and get an operator. As close to verbatim an account as I can recall follows: Fucking READ the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/30 "2002-04-20T03:20:43Z")
I did read the OP, Rye. Perhaps you could manage to simply learn how to read. “9” does not equal “911.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/31 "2002-04-20T03:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FallenAngel \* > \*\*First of all, **dropzone** , it’s not necessarily easily done in a vehicle. \*\* Nor, contrary to the action/adventure movies you seem to think are instructional videos, is shooting someone while driving. The other guy demonstrated that when he not only missed you but also your **entire car**. You were in little danger from him, regardless of where the next exit was. Careful and creative driving would have kept you safe. And, while I will accept, though not entirely agree, that the majority of gun owners in this country are “responsible,” “well-trained” is a totally different story. Haphazardly trained is more like it. I have not touched a gun in quite a long time, yet I manage to also not be “a willing victim of violence.” One does not have to walk around armed like Dirty Harry to avoid most violence or to, as you were forced by your own forgetfulness, extricate oneself from it. ---
**Author:** ![Rye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e56c9b/32.png) [@Rye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rye)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/32 "2002-04-20T03:43:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I did read the OP, Rye. Perhaps you could manage to simply learn how to read. “9” does not equal “911.” From the OP > [@](#): > > Then I hit 911 and Talk ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/33 "2002-04-20T03:59:36Z")
Very good, Rye. Now let’s see you move onto “continuity” in the story. The OP first dialled “9 talk” and got an error message. He then dialled “911” and got a busy signal. He then dialled “411 talk” and commenced the argumentive bit. ---
**Author:** ![Rye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e56c9b/32.png) [@Rye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rye)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/34 "2002-04-20T04:15:31Z")
Yes, what is wrong with dialing 9, then 911, then 411? ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/35 "2002-04-20T04:27:42Z")
well-stated, dropzone. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/36 "2002-04-20T04:53:22Z")
Apparently, you either can’t read or don’t bother to. You certainly can’t handle being shown you’re wrong. At any rate, I’ll go really slowly so you can keep up. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **"Sunshine," hey, punk? You go tooling around town thinking you’ve a fucking loaded weapon in your vehicle and when you encounter another asshole tooling around town actually with a fucking loaded weapon, you decide to dive for your fucking loaded weapon THAT’S NOT FUCKING THERE!** > > In the first place, I didn’t “dive”. In the second, the fact that I fucked up and didn’t put my gun in the car was the whole reason for the OP. Yes, when I hear gunfire, my first thoughts are Where is it coming from? Am I at risk? Is there cover nearby?, etc. It’s called tactical identification. Second, you’re damn right that I make sure my weapon is accessible in the event that I should need it. > > **You also have no idea what the posted speed limit is for the firing ranger…er, public road on which you intend to have this little shootout.** > > Well, that’s only partially true, but it’s also totally irrelevant. The speed limit changes from 65 to 55 in that general area, but I’m not certain exactly where. At any rate, it has nothing to do with the incident; so lay off the red herrings. My driving 5 or so miles above or below the speed limit doesn’t matter in the least regarding what happened. > > \*\*You also decide that this emergency is so extreme that you’d rather get into an argument with someone on the phone instead of simply redialing 911. > > Which you could’ve easily done had you familiarized yourself with your freaking cell phone and had the thing programmed correctly to begin with. > > But apparently dialling 911 was so much more difficult than dialling 411. Poor baby.\*\* > > In the first place, I never got into an argument with anyone. I kept my voice as clear and level as possible, and I never argued about being transferred around even though I was trying to report the fact that someone may have tried to kill me. > > In the second place, the number 9 speed dial key on my cell is supposed to be pre-programmed, at issue, as an emergency key. To activate a speed dial number, you either hold the key down for three seconds, or you press the key and then “Talk”. You’re right that I never had occasion to try it out before this (luckily), but I also can’t see placing an unnecessary call to 911 when you get the phone just to make sure it works. > > So, since it WAS an emergency, I figured it would make more sense to get through to SOMEONE rather than fucking around when the initial calls from speed dial and the dialed 911 failed to get me through to anyone. Maybe you’d sit there and try to debug a piece of equipment when there’s another avenue. I’m won’t… > > Lastly, had 911 gone through from my cell phone, it would have most likely gone through to Phoenix PD, and I’d have been transferred anyway. > > **By the way, asshole…what’s your fucking plan of explanation when you actually do fire back at someone, miss them, and hit some innocent party ON THE FUCKING PUBLIC ROAD?!** > > Had you read my other posts, you would have known that I would never have taken a goddamn shot without being sure of my target and what was immediately behind it. That’s what being a responsible gun owner is all about - defending yourself when there is no other option. As noted above (repeatedly) there was another option; so I’d have taken it and done exactly what I did. Had that option not existed, or had it been negated by the truck following me, I’d have been fucked. Is that finally clear, or should I have someone send you finger puppets to act it out? > > **Also by the way, are you tooling around with a concealed carry permit? I took it that you’re not since you mentioned that Arizona is an “open carry” state. Now, you’re correct that violation of the CCW law is a misdemeanor; but violationg the open carry statute is a Class 3 felony.** > > No, I am not carrying a CCW permit, because the ways in which I carry my firearm (in a belt holster or concealed in a vehicle while in a holster) fall under the open carry clauses (as was very carefully pointed out for your significantly subgenius ass) and do not require a permit. 13-3102 excepts holstered carry in a vehicle from the requirements of 13-3112. I don’t have and won’t get a CCW permit because I do not believe in registering with the state in order to exercise a basic human and civil right, and because the ways in which I carry are perfectly legal without it. Got it, or is it back for round two of the finger puppets? > > I also pointed out what constitutes a felony under the title, but you apparently can’t get that through your weak little blockhead even though you halfway try to clarify your point. > > \*\*So, Rambo, which is it? Are you (a) a fucking moron, (b) a fucking moron, or © a fucking moron? \*\* It’s none of the above, you halfwit. I’m a responsible citizen who carries the means to defend himself, is trained in the use of those means, the legal and moral means to employ them and the consequences of both deploying and failing or opting not to do so. You are apparently too embroiled in your mantra of “guns are inherently evil” (admittedly paraphrased) to bother acquainting yourself with the facts of any situation that may fall outside your predefined worldview and agenda, if any. Your complete lack of factual knowledge is contemptible, but your refusal to refer to the facts when they are lain out in front of you is reprehensible. Kindly go crawl back under your rock. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/37 "2002-04-20T04:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Nor, contrary to the action/adventure movies you seem to think are instructional videos, is shooting someone while driving. The other guy demonstrated that when he not only missed you but also your **entire car**. You were in little danger from him, regardless of where the next exit was. Careful and creative driving would have kept you safe. > > And, while I will accept, though not entirely agree, that the majority of gun owners in this country are “responsible,” “well-trained” is a totally different story. Haphazardly trained is more like it. > > I have not touched a gun in quite a long time, yet I manage to also not be “a willing victim of violence.” One does not have to walk around armed like Dirty Harry to avoid most violence or to, as you were forced by your own forgetfulness, extricate oneself from it. \*\* I am wholly aware of how difficult it is to hit a moving target, particularly when you, yourself, are in motion. However, given his close proximity, had I not exited and evaded, or had he followed me, his odds would have improved. As to the point of “well-trained”, most gun owners, and all the ones I know personally, take pride in their ability to handle weapons accurately and safely, take a fairly high degree of training and practice regularly. Is that guaranteed across the board? Of course not, but I would hazzard that most civilian gun owners who regularly carry their weapons are better trained than the average police officer. And I’m sorry, **dropzone** , but if you do not choose to possess the means to defend yourself, you do not manage to avoid being a willing victim of violence; you just haven’t been one yet. While it is always better to get away safely, situations do arise where that is not an option. I hope that situation does not arise for you and that your luck continues to hold. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/38 "2002-04-20T06:26:48Z")
Glad you’re okay, **FallenAngel**. You did the right thing, and I’m all for the right to carry. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/39 "2002-04-20T06:52:58Z")
Good God, people! The man was **shot at** on a public highway, managed to get away from the situation, reported it immediately afterward, and offered to ID the idiot who was doing the shooting. If someone who **hadn’t** brought up the gun details had posted that, s/he’d have gotten three pages of sympathy and "Are you all right?"s! But since he mentioned that he carries a gun, and regrets that he didn’t have it with him (regardless of whether he’d have used it or not), he’s suddenly Gary Cooper and Rambo and has a deep-felt need to prove his manhood? Y’all are nuts. Truly, truly nuts. A gun is not a moral issue. It’s a tool. Owning a gun doesn’t make you a bad person. Carrying a gun doesn’t make you a lunatic. Try to get a life, 'kay? jayjay ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489/40 "2002-04-20T09:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marlitharn \* > **That said, is anyone else disturbed by the fact that the powers that be in Phoenix felt the need to play phone tag with someone who was reporting a crime in progress?** No. This was not phone tag; this was going through the proper channels. Phoenix, like all cities, has a bureacracy. Certain problems are to be handle by certain departments; others by other departments. \*\* > [@](#): > > “You need to do that from 911” my ass. I’m guessing that once the 911 operator got the information from you, it got passed right back to Dispatcher #1 so she could relay it to her officers.\*\* No, she would not, because the problem came under the Highway Patrol jurisdiction. If the HP decided they needed the cooperation of the police department, then they would make contact, but otherwise, it’s not their responsibility. \*\* > [@](#): > > I mean, I understand the need for division of labor and 2 or 3 step dispatching in a large city where there’s always a lot going on, but do we really need to follow the outlined steps here? Dispatcher #1 could have gotten the general location from you and gotten officers on the way while she transferred your call to 911 so they could obtain fuller information.\*\* That might not be a good idea. **FallenAngel** already agreed to ID the shooter if necessary. If this ended up being a court case, he could be called as a witness. Now, imagine if the shooter’s lawyer found something he said to Dispatcher#1, or 2 for that matter, but not to anyone else, and had it struck as inadmissible. The only statement that should be recorded is the one made to the department that’s carrying out the pursuit (and hopefully arrest). \*\* > [@](#): > > It sounds like you stayed fairly calm when you called in the incident, **FallenAngel** , and I’m willing to believe that had you called screaming and hysterical, Dispatcher #1 would have taken care of things herself rather than risk transferring you around until your head spontaneously combusted from frustration.\*\* I think not, for reasons already stated. Anyway, why make her job any more stressful than it already is? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-against-my-own-stupidity-and-self-neglect/104489.md?page=3)