# A rant to the 'other' grandmother. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2016, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142 "2016-11-16T09:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/61 "2016-11-18T13:56:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Let’s throw her from the train! I dunno - do you think we can hit the quarry from here? > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Children are disease vectors. Sadly true (although, as noted, not of newborns. But just wait until daycare…) > [@Calatin](#): > > As a non-breeder, I actually do worship babies, but specifically Tod-Lor, the Baby God. > > The only problem is, He requires infant sacrifices, and you can only imagine what an awkward conundrum that puts me in… Maybe you could sacrifice Tod-Lor to himself? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/62 "2016-11-18T14:34:03Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I guess I should piss off, too, since I believe it’s crap to excuse the father (your son) who had half the responsibility in creating the baby and not the other grandma who doesn’t have any direct legal responsibility. > Your son and his wife had several months of notice that the baby was coming and instead of setting aside enough money to afford to care for and bond w/ the baby and explain to his project boss that his baby was first priority, your son chose work over his family. In fact, he chose his paying job over YOUR paying job and over his wife’s immediate needs. All the women in this situation have needs that are less important than his. > And if they couldn’t set aside funds like that w/ several months of notice then maybe they couldn’t afford this baby and hopefully they’ll plan their next one better. This wasn’t an emergency. The wife/mother was handling things. If, somehow, no other adult had stepped in, everything would have been fine–just a little more miserable for both adults. To listen to some of you, if you struggle at all with a new baby, if there are moments where you feel overwhelmed and exhausted, the whole thing was a mistake and you shouldn’t have done it. The OP wasn’t saying that the other grandmother and father left the mother and baby to suffer and die because of fatal sleep deprivation. The OP didn’t even say that the mother and baby were stewing in their own filth or unable to get adequate food or anything that would suggest that this was a dire situation. She just saw her son and daughter-in-law was going through a really rough time and reached out to help, and was upset that someone else refused. This is like giving someone you know a ride when it’s raining. They often walk in the rain, they don’t complain, they handle it fine, but you know they walk to work, you know it’s raining, so you offer to come pick them up and give them a ride because you love them and want to reduce their suffering–even if it isn’t strictly “needed”. Then, when you pick them up, they mention in passing that their neighbor is also a mutual friend and works in the same building and knows the firs person walks to work and that it was storming, but never offers them a ride. So you think “What a bitch!”, even though you know that the mutual friend has no moral responsibility, no imperative to offer a ride. It just seems like being a poor friend not to reduce suffering even when it’s not that hard to do so. Making this about babies or the choice to be childfree or whatever is a red herring. It’s about being willing to help out people you love. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/63 "2016-11-18T15:54:05Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I’m a childless, middle-aged female No kidding! Trust me, this revelation comes as a shock to me. All this time I thought you could speak with some authority on child rearing. I guess I was wrong. > [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I guess I should piss off, too Please do! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/64 "2016-11-18T16:05:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The realization that some people do not worship babies is always shocking to breeders. Civilization was created by adults not babies. Are you suggesting that **BigT** is a “breeder”? Hahahaha you really are delusional. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/65 "2016-11-18T17:24:35Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > This is like giving someone you know a ride when it’s raining. They often walk in the rain, they don’t complain, they handle it fine, but you know they walk to work, you know it’s raining, so you offer to come pick them up and give them a ride because you love them and want to reduce their suffering–even if it isn’t strictly “needed”. Then, when you pick them up, they mention in passing that their neighbor is also a mutual friend and works in the same building and knows the firs person walks to work and that it was storming, but never offers them a ride. So you think “What a bitch!”, even though you know that the mutual friend has no moral responsibility, no imperative to offer a ride. It just seems like being a poor friend not to reduce suffering even when it’s not that hard to do so. > > Making this about babies or the choice to be childfree or whatever is a red herring. It’s about being willing to help out people you love. Actually it’s more like someone walking to work in rain because they deliberately choose not to use the bus or hire a car service and then having them complain that someone else wouldn’t give them free rides. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/66 "2016-11-18T17:33:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually it’s more like someone walking to work in rain because they deliberately choose not to use the bus or hire a car service and then having them complain that someone else wouldn’t give them free rides. Given that the person in question has been getting free housing from the daughter, it’s more like refusing to offer a lift to someone who loaned you their car. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/67 "2016-11-18T17:50:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually it’s more like someone walking to work in rain because they deliberately choose not to use the bus or hire a car service and then having them complain that someone else wouldn’t give them free rides. Where did she complain? ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/68 "2016-11-18T17:56:55Z")
I hate to say this, but I’m kind of on the side of ZPG and Nawth Chucka. When I had my daughter, she was my responsibility. I chose to carry to term. Her dad was always working, then he was gone, so it was my choice, my responsibility. I took quick showers while she slept. I napped when she napped. I cleaned as I could. With a newborn, it’s not that difficult (except when she experienced colic for a few weeks - that was hell). Not once did I call any of the grandparents asking for relief, as it was not their responsibility. I see many of my daughter’s friends pawning off their kids on grandparents. It irks me. If you choose to have a child, it’s yours. Ideally, you’d have a partner to share duties. I get that **kambuckta** ’s son is currently working overtime to get a job done. Then they should arrange for a babysitter. That **kambuckta** is willing to babysit - that’s a massive bonus. It should not be an expectation. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/69 "2016-11-18T18:11:44Z")
Do you only ask friends and family for things when it’s a responsibility? Do you pnly do things for those you love when it’s a responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/70 "2016-11-18T18:38:40Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > When I had my daughter, she was my responsibility. - \*Offer no longer valid after daughter has a baby. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/71 "2016-11-18T19:19:56Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > - > > \*Offer no longer valid after daughter has a baby. Actually, kinda, yeah. I have told her if/when she chooses to have a child, don’t expect me to be an automatic babysitter. I will gladly volunteer as I have time, but don’t presume I will drop everything to watch her child. At this point, she’s not sure she ever wants to procreate, so who knows. Then again, I may be taken over by grandma madness and want to spend every moment possible with her child. Hopefully, that’s still more than a few years out. Love and responsibility are two different things. I do things out of love all the time. Take my mother to dinner for no reason. Go to church for her. Rake leaves/mow lawns/shovel for elderly neighbors. I frequently petsit for my sister. I have no problems doing any of it, and do not expect reciprocation. When I had my daughter, she became my responsibility. If my parents wanted to babysit her, sure. After her dad left, my mom and dad offered to take her for a few hours every other week. They Offered. I did not ask. Maybe it stems from being a single parent for the vast majority of her life, going hard against my parents beliefs and their comments about “lazy single parents”. When I announced I was knocked up, not married, my dad basically told me “you’re on your own, kid”. I took that very seriously and tried my damndest NOT to look for help from them, to prove I could do it on my own. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/72 "2016-11-18T19:27:34Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Maybe it stems from being a single parent for the vast majority of her life, going hard against my parents beliefs and their comments about “lazy single parents”. When I announced I was knocked up, not married, my dad basically told me “you’re on your own, kid”. I took that very seriously and tried my damndest NOT to look for help from them, to prove I could do it on my own. Your parents denied you assistance _specifically because you were alone_? And you’re defending that decision? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/73 "2016-11-18T19:41:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Wow, grandma’s a sack of shit because she refuses to play babysitter? Sorry, that doesn’t give the daughter any ownership rights over grandma’s time. If she wasn’t prepared to care for it with her own resources, she shouldn’t have had it. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Which she should have adequately prepared for ahead of time in a manner that did not assume using another person for free child care. Some people don’t like babies. New parents need to get over it and realize that crying machines that spew bodily waste are not everyone idea of a good time. Yeah! When we had our children, I took time off work. Then I sealed up the house and disconnected the water and electricity. I used a stationary bike and generated my own electricity. I strained the water through coffee filters, which was great since I don’t drink … coffee. Of course, my wife had to get her own stationary bike. If she didn’t have the resources to have a kid, then she just shouldn’t have done had that kid, by Jingo! Sorry, that’s as ridiculous as I can get. Grandma had a hard time with our second child. He has autism and was crying alot and hard to comfort during his first years. Growing into a pre-teen and teen, he’s figuring out the world and is the happiest and easy-going-est of the kids. He’s also a great hiker and is the preferred one for Grandma to take on walks now. Too bad kambuckta’s DIL’s grandmother will miss out on the splashes in the bath, the first words and first steps, when grandbaby can have an actual conversation with you - wow, that’s weird when you realize you made something that can think! No one is truly “independent”. We all rely on the resources of others - The Red Cross in disasters, the military for defense, the family for support, the message board for criticism. Even if it’s hard, you help family, remembering that they helped you. If you’re smart, you find the fun in the hardship, otherwise - talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/74 "2016-11-18T19:48:22Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Love and responsibility are two different things. I do things out of love all the time. Take my mother to dinner for no reason. Go to church for her. Rake leaves/mow lawns/shovel for elderly neighbors. I frequently petsit for my sister. I have no problems doing any of it, and do not expect reciprocation. > > When I had my daughter, she became my responsibility. If my parents wanted to babysit her, sure. After her dad left, my mom and dad offered to take her for a few hours every other week. They Offered. I did not ask. Well, done, MissTake. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/75 "2016-11-18T19:50:55Z")
> [@Corner\_Case](#): > > Even if it’s hard, you help family, remembering that they helped you. If you’re smart, you find the fun in the hardship, otherwise - talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater! Keep in mind in this case the daughter wants to sell the house her mother is living in. That’s really “helping” out family there. (And an obvious explanation as to why that grandmother doesn’t plan on providing free childcare). ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/76 "2016-11-18T19:57:02Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Well, done, MissTake. Truly, I do not want your thanks. I’m adopted. The horrendous crap you have spewed about adopted children makes my flesh crawl. There are few people I despise. Congratulations, you’re one of them. **Whiskey Dickens** - Yes, I do. THEY did not get pregnant, I did. If they offered to help, and I felt I needed it, I accepted it. I did not ask them. We all make choices in our lives. I knew I was going against how I was raised (“normal” Lutheran, not some wingnut religion or anything) by having a child out of wedlock. All in all, I think it made me a better parent. I’ve faced rough times on my own, and got through them. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/77 "2016-11-18T20:01:36Z")
Wow, are you really that much of a bitter cunt ZPG? Or do you just enjoy negative attention? Is your motto “Abort them all and let God sort them out”? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/78 "2016-11-18T20:09:17Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Wow, are you really that much of a bitter cunt ZPG? Or do you just enjoy negative attention? Is your motto “Abort them all and let God sort them out”? My motto is “Don’t breed them, if you can’t feed them.” In other words do not have children unless you have a reasonable plan for supporting and raising them. A reasonable plan does not consist of expecting some one else to provide economic or social support. In a nuclear family, children are the responsibility of their parents. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/79 "2016-11-18T20:15:32Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Truly, I do not want your thanks. I’m adopted. The horrendous crap you have spewed about adopted children makes my flesh crawl. There are few people I despise. Congratulations, you’re one of them. > > **Whiskey Dickens** - Yes, I do. THEY did not get pregnant, I did. If they offered to help, and I felt I needed it, I accepted it. I did not ask them. We all make choices in our lives. I knew I was going against how I was raised (“normal” Lutheran, not some wingnut religion or anything) by having a child out of wedlock. All in all, I think it made me a better parent. I’ve faced rough times on my own, and got through them. The daughter in the OP didn’t ask for help either. Her mother in law offered to help, and that mother-in-law feels like the other grandparent should have offered to help. How on earth does that translate into the daughter being unprepared or irresponsible? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142/80 "2016-11-18T20:22:40Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The daughter in the OP didn’t ask for help either. Her mother in law offered to help, and that mother-in-law feels like the other grandparent should have offered to help. How on earth does that translate into the daughter being unprepared or irresponsible? There are some very bitter people in the world. We’re all glad that **ZPG** has never spawned–for the good of the child. And probably feel pity for **MissTake** ’s daughter–who is no doubt reminded every day that she was a horrible “mistake.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-rant-to-the-other-grandmother/772142.md?page=5)