A rational (fact-based) discussion on Trump v Clinton

Is that so?

If Trump were elected, he would be the most unqualified president in our history.

Every other president had prior political experience or was a wartime general (arguably with the exception of Herbert Hoover who was a cabinet secretary, and we all know how that turned out). I think Hillary is about the most qualified candidate I’ve seen in my lifetime with the possible exception of George HW Bush but I don’t think Hillary is any less self serving than Trump.

Hoover had considerable other types of experience in public service. During World War I he ran the Commission for Relief of Belgium, which by some measures was the single largest humanitarian relief effort ever undertaken in the history the world to that point. He then headed the American Relief Administration, providing famine relief to central Europe, after the war. Then he was Secretary of Commerce. The Great Depression really was not his fault and it’s unlikely any of the 1928 alternatives would have done a better job dealing with it, though his personality and mannerisms were inherently unsympathetic and tone deaf.

Hoover was, conservatively, ten times more qualified and smarter than Donald Trump.

Al Gore.

Are you referring to impeached, removed form office, convicted criminal who is still in prison Rod Blagojevich? That Rod Blagojevich?

Tough choice, but if he could get out of prison to serve … yes, I would vote for him over Donald Trump.

Okay, fair enough.

What if it’s Donald Trump vs. Charles Manson?

Congressman, senator, VP. Pretty much a career politician.

That’s the resume of half the vice presidents in recent history.

Bush was a politician, a diplomat, a bureaucrat, and VP.

ETA but I agree that the question of qualifications is inherently subjective. Some people think that Trump’s LACK of political and government experience makes him the most qualified candidate we have ever had.

That’s an easy one! I’d vote for Manson so long as they kept him IN prison.

I don’t have the numbers handy, but who has created more jobs? Hillary or Donald?

You don’t have the numbers handy because “creating jobs” is not subject to numerical analysis. The whole “job creator” meme is not amenable to logic.

Nobody has the numbers handy.

And it’s not the Secretary of State’s responsibility to create jobs. Nor a businessman’s, for that matter.

I’m leaning towards Charlie. Only because Charlie has some leadership experience.

I don’t have the numbers handy, but who has ensured more underprivileged children were covered by health insurance? Hillary or Donald?

I don’t have the numbers handy but who has kicked more puppies? Hillary or Donald?

I don’t have the numbers handy, but who has stiffed more small businesses by reneging on contracts and offering them pennies on the dollar - Hillary or Donald?

I would bet $50 there are more jobs still in existence due to the legislative efforts of Hillary Clinton from 2001-2009 than there are still in existence due to the business efforts of Donald Trump within the same time period.

Donald has certainly created more jobs in Bangladesh and China. In America - it’s kind of a mixed bag. He does hire lots of people; he just doesn’t pay them. USA Today did a survey and found that Trump has been involved with over 3500 lawsuits in the last three years.

I think Donald’s habit of cheating people out of their wages disqualifies his claim to be a ‘job creator’.

I respectfully disagree: there is plenty of information to judge his skills as a businessman, and I don’t mean newspaper articles, but his own SEC filings from 1996-2010.

According to the numbers, in that time period, Trump Entertainment Resorts Holdings (TERH) had

$16 billion in revenue
$441 million in operating income (a 2.8% gross margin)
$1.3 billion in losses

These losses were compounded by the debt he held on his books:

$252 million, average short-term debt (as in, this is due within a year.)
$1,246 million, average long-term debt (as in, due next year or later.)

The interest on this debt is staggering. In total, over the 16 year period, Trump paid:

$2,702,500,000 in interest expense.

So, every year, on average, looked like this:

Revenue: $1,000,000,000
Operating Expense: 972,450,000
Operating Profit: $27,550,000
Interest Expense: $169,000,000
Profit/Loss: $81,250,000**

So, yeah, the data is there to show that he sucks as a businessman but is a wonderful Merchant of Debt. It’s why he transferred from properties to casinos - the cash flows can mask and support all sorts of idiocy.

*Assuming he doesn’t refinance, which he did, but this is a MB post, so deal with my assumptions. To be honest, it appears that he paid very little of his short-term debt back

** If you’re wondering how he only loses $81 million while having $27 million to finance both SG&A and $169 million in interest payments, there are a LOT of extraordinary items claimed on his income statements. They changed accounting procedures and estimates, they sold buildings, all sorts of crap. There’s one year he pays himself $40 million or some ungodly amount and then two years later, bankruptcy. Good times!

Like I said: he’s a merchant of debt. If I had $80,000 in credit card debt and 3 mortgages on $75,000 on income, Donald Trump would be the guy I would go to for advice… not on how to get out of this trap, but on how to live, and thrive, like this.

Well to be fair, it was claimed he was a “job creator”, not a “wage creator”

He’ll make it up in volume