# A real-life handicap-parking story **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524 "2011-06-23T03:28:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/321 "2011-07-07T20:27:50Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The ‘gotcha’ accusatory defense. Sarah Palin, move over! > > Really? Someone points out, your own words, to you and it’s a ‘gotcha’? smh. I’m done arguing over the same bullshit over and over. I realize alot of people here have harshly judged my actions. Ok. I can live with that. I am putting this thread to rest. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/322 "2011-07-07T20:54:39Z")
Once arisen, a zombie is tough to kill! ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/323 "2011-07-07T21:13:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I realize alot of people here have harshly judged my actions. Says the fellow who judges other’s actions harshly. The irony, it burns! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/324 "2011-07-07T21:35:59Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > smh. I’m done arguing over the same bullshit over and over. I realize alot of people here have harshly judged my actions. Ok. I can live with that. I am putting this thread to rest. Wanna guess how long he’ll be back? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/325 "2011-07-07T22:30:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wanna guess how long he’ll be back? With a new thread. I’m guessing it’s going to be about how hotels and motels should keep their accessible rooms empty, renting them only to the legitimately wheelchair-bound. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/326 "2011-07-07T22:50:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Let me guess, the guy wasn’t actually driving a car but a motorcycle, which you meant to say earlier but kinda forgot. And his motorcycle could _hover!_ And there was _blackjack!_ And _hookers!_ I am SO joining that gym. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/327 "2011-07-07T23:12:37Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I hope you recognize this as the justification that every person, who takes the law into their own hands, uses. It sounds like an abusive husband excusing his behaviour, ‘she was pushing all my buttons, I went a little nuts, that’s what it takes to get through to her!’ > > No one is immune from frustration or occasional bad behaviour, but that doesn’t excuse it. If you take it upon yourself, rather than call police, you shouldn’t be surprised when others don’t support your behaviour, or that there are consequences for your actions. > > Are you suggesting that you’d be okay with it, when Joe Citizen detains _ **you** _ for a traffic violation? Can we block your car in for not using the turn signal? Run you into the ditch for speeding or texting? There is a good reason why society doesn’t want people taking upon themselves to act as policing authorities. If my crippled mother came home and told me she had done the same thing as jamie, I’d high-five her. If a handicapped person literally can’t visit an establishment because the handicap spaces are filled by able-bodied people, and it happens enough times, blocking their car in while waiting for the police to respond is within my realm of possibility. Meekly waiting until the violators finish their shopping and move their cars is not. This is hardly like justification for beating your wife. Citizens detain purse-snatchers all the time. Are you saying that they’re wrong to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/328 "2011-07-07T23:57:57Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > If a handicapped person literally can’t visit an establishment because the handicap spaces are filled by able-bodied people, and it happens enough times, blocking their car in while waiting for the police to respond is within my realm of possibility. Of course that’s not what happened here. There were multiple handicap spaces open, and since the driver was in the car, he could have moved if someone really wanted to park there, but Mr. SuperDuperHero McScrappy wasn’t interested in just going to the gym. He was interested in some Payback, Two-Wheeled Bronson-style. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/329 "2011-07-08T01:26:40Z")
Ok, I know I said I was finished with this thread but I wanted to add a little piece of information that puts a little more context to the story. When this happened and this story broke, I received alot of support from fellow members and friends at HHFC. Many cancelled their memberships and did other actions as ways to show support. One of the strongest supporters was a man, a well-known and respected member of the community here, an engineer (i dont recall what specificity) who has a younger sister who was tragically severely injured in a car accident several years ago. He put his life on indefinite hold to single-handedly rehabilitate her and get her engaged in life again, when most doctors doubted even her ability to live past a year or two. He and his sister are members at HHFC, where he takes her there for workouts and physical therapy, which he takes part in along with the physical therapists. He really is an amazing man. Anyway, he is a staunch, fierce advocate of handicap-accessibility laws, having experienced the difficulties firsthand living with his disabled sister. And in the time that both he and I have been members at HHFC, long before I engaged in any such activity, this man had been known to do the EXACT SAME THING. Same action, same reason, totally different response. He is the nice, world’s-best-guy who is a respected engineer on top of that so his actions are understandable and allowed. I am just a hothead young guy in a wheelchair, probably just causing the trouble in the first place…so my actions are absolutely not tolerated. He went to bat for me to get this situation changed, attempting to meet with the manager in this story. He was flatly refused. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/330 "2011-07-08T01:29:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He was interested in some Payback, Two-Wheeled Bronson-style. Hey, don’t go dissin’ Charles Bronson. He was so tough, he had chunks of Chuck Norris in his stool. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/331 "2011-07-08T03:18:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Citizens detain purse-snatchers all the time. Are you saying that they’re wrong to do so? Seriously? You don’t see a difference between a traffic violation and a purse snatching? Come on now. > [@](#): > > Are you suggesting that you’d be okay with it, when Joe Citizen detains you for a traffic violation? Can we block your car in for not using the turn signal? Run you into the ditch for speeding or texting? There is a good reason why society doesn’t want people taking upon themselves to act as policing authorities. Can’t help but notice how you evaded this question. So how about it? Will it be okay when you’re on the receiving end? Or will you expect to deal with the proper authorities? > [@](#): > > long before I engaged in any such activity, this man had been known to do the EXACT SAME THING Are you seriously suggesting that someone else, having done it, is any kind of defense? Really? He did it first? What are you in third grade? As for the different reactions, I’d wager he doesn’t self identify as an ‘abrasive asshole’ as you so proudly do. Gee, I wonder if that could have any bearing on it? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/332 "2011-07-08T05:29:58Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > What info are you using to justify that opinion? What info do I have to assume you’re a habitual troublemaker? How about this: > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > long before I engaged in any such activity, this man had been known to do the EXACT SAME THING. Same action, same reason, totally different response. He is the nice, world’s-best-guy who is a respected engineer on top of that so his actions are understandable and allowed. When someone is a pleasant, reasonable person with a legitimate issue people will often go out of their way to help them. When someone is abrasive and unpleasant and seems to have nothing but complaints, people eventually run out of patience. The management of this gym are obviously willing to be reasonable when dealing with good customers, but they have clearly run out of patience for you. Having worked with the public, I know that there are some customers who are just not worth the trouble because they are never satisfied no matter what. Everything you have said leads me to believe that you are one of those customers and you were banned because of that. Given that this gym apparently caters to the disabled and has been willing to work with someone else who has complained about handicapped parking, I find it hard to believe that they cancelled your membership due to discrimination. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they cut you some slack because they didn’t want to appear discriminatory. If you continue to act in the same way you may eventually find that you get the same result at the new gym. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/333 "2011-07-08T08:05:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Let’s assume the OP lives in a community where the police do not take action based on a report and cell phone pictures, and typically do not respond to the scene before the parking spot misuser drives away. > > So for all the people that are offering some variant of, “Go about your day, follow the proper protocols,” let me ask you: for how long? Is your advice that he should simply continue to do nothing, and accept the fact that handicap parking spaces are a function of the honor system with no real consequences for violators? I read to page 3, then skipped to page 7. I thought this page 1 quote deserved more than the 1-2 responses it received. **After deciding you want to make a project of this and not before…** Under my framework, you institute an escalation procedure. After submitting cell phone pictures and reports, you inquire with the cops whether they did anything and if not, why not. Is there anything you can do to make their job easier? Keep a diary. Try to stay friendly and cordial. Re-evaluate your stance: second guessing is good. I support civil disobedience, but one should document the steps taken before that and bend over backwards to follow proper protocol. Typically aim for a gentle but inexorable upward sloping escalation. More generally though, the speed of the escalation will vary with the institution, but you should always make the pace deliberate. In Wisconsin, all political parties already have a long history, so they presumably are already in or near an actionable zone. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/334 "2011-07-08T15:39:26Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > What info do I have to assume you’re a habitual troublemaker? How about this: > > When someone is a pleasant, reasonable person with a legitimate issue people will often go out of their way to help them. When someone is abrasive and unpleasant and seems to have nothing but complaints, people eventually run out of patience. The management of this gym are obviously willing to be reasonable when dealing with good customers, but they have clearly run out of patience for you. > > Having worked with the public, I know that there are some customers who are just not worth the trouble because they are never satisfied no matter what. Everything you have said leads me to believe that you are one of those customers and you were banned because of that. Given that this gym apparently caters to the disabled and has been willing to work with someone else who has complained about handicapped parking, I find it hard to believe that they cancelled your membership due to discrimination. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they cut you some slack because they didn’t want to appear discriminatory. If you continue to act in the same way you may eventually find that you get the same result at the new gym. I had typed up basically the same thing and then I saw this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/335 "2011-07-08T16:11:58Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I read to page 3, then skipped to page 7. I thought this page 1 quote deserved more than the 1-2 responses it received. > > **After deciding you want to make a project of this and not before…** > Under my framework, you institute an escalation procedure. After submitting cell phone pictures and reports, you inquire with the cops whether they did anything and if not, why not. Is there anything you can do to make their job easier? Keep a diary. Try to stay friendly and cordial. Re-evaluate your stance: second guessing is good. I support civil disobedience, but one should document the steps taken before that and bend over backwards to follow proper protocol. Typically aim for a gentle but inexorable upward sloping escalation. > > More generally though, the speed of the escalation will vary with the institution, but you should always make the pace deliberate. In Wisconsin, all political parties already have a long history, so they presumably are already in or near an actionable zone. That’s a very reasonable and well-thought-out approach. I’m very willing to believe the OP immediately went to Defcon 1, but it’s worth pointing out that the majority of responses suggested – or outright stated – that there was never a justification for the behavior. Your post, in contrast, foresees the remote possibility of reaching Defcon 1 after a carefully-documented journey starting at Defcon 5. That makes perfect sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/336 "2011-07-08T16:37:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s a very reasonable and well-thought-out approach. Oh yes. Measure for Measure’s way to go is much more the way to go in these things. Of course, one should not be mistaken that the mere existence of such a plan actually makes one correct in their goals. You may end up being a social activist hero. Or, if the powers that be, society, and the legal system think your view of “rights” is a crock of shit, then all you will eventually become is a quack with significant social, financial and legal problems. Fighting the man doesnt mean you are by definition right or that it will turn out well in the end. Be willing to accept that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/337 "2011-07-08T18:25:55Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Ok, I know I said I was finished with this thread but Did I call it, or did I call it? And you know what? I don’t believe you, or at least, I’m skeptical. Why the hell didn’t you point this out earlier? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/338 "2011-07-08T18:30:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Did I call it, or did I call it? > And you know what? I don’t believe you, or at least, I’m skeptical. Why the hell didn’t you point this out earlier? > > :dubious: It’s not part of the original story, I didn’t think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/339 "2011-07-08T18:32:57Z")
Jamie, how old are you by the way? I’d guess you were about 23 or 24. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524/340 "2011-07-08T18:36:30Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Jamie, how old are you by the way? I’d guess you were about 23 or 24. He’s 31. It’s in the news article linked in the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-real-life-handicap-parking-story/586524.md?page=18)