# A religious argument I mishandled in Great Debates: Better handled here **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984 "2013-07-19T22:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/61 "2013-07-21T06:32:02Z")
Sigh: Apparently nothing I try works. The last two posts I made were deliberately humorous, in hopes I might convince the others posting that my statements did not originate in an abnormal mentality. Obviously I failed to make even that point. I read many years ago that those who accept evolution assume that only mentally deficient people (or those apparently so) will attack it, so I started out, including in Great Debates, with three srtrikes against me, without realizing it. I cannot sustain this thread under such conditions, as anyone reading it can see, so I renew my request to the moderator to close it down. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/62 "2013-07-21T09:27:25Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Here’s a concept: Don’t _provoke_ people. > You win The Bronx Cheer. 😛 > How d’ya like **them** apples, Edgar? 😃 Wow, this is almost as dumb as your posts on evolution! Which, for the record, if you didn’t seem so adverse to learning, we probably wouldn’t have harped on so much. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > And don’t think of me as a cream puff. I’m six-foot-two and husky and have scared quite a few people. I don’t like fights, however, and would rather avoid one. And I graduated at the top of my class in the Navy Seals and am a master of gorilla warfare. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/63 "2013-07-21T12:07:07Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Sigh: > Apparently nothing I try works. The last two posts I made were deliberately humorous, in hopes I might convince the others posting that my statements did not originate in an abnormal mentality. Obviously I failed to make even that point. > **I read many years ago that those who accept evolution assume that only mentally deficient people (or those apparently so) will attack it**, so I started out, including in Great Debates, with three srtrikes against me, without realizing it. I cannot sustain this thread under such conditions, as anyone reading it can see, so I renew my request to the moderator to close it down. ☹ Again you show that you are either misremembering something you read, or not considering the source. If that was from a Creationist tract, then the writer was wrong. Unless you honestly believe that “uneducated” means “mentally deficient,” in which case you are again projecting your personal insecurities upon others. Imagining the worst of the behavior of those you seal with will not help alleviate your persecution complex. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/64 "2013-07-21T13:22:22Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Sigh: > Apparently nothing I try works. That’s because everything you’ve tried is fucking stupid. > [@](#): > > The last two posts I made were deliberately humorous, in hopes I might convince the others posting that my statements did not originate in an abnormal mentality. Well, here is a hint: After you have fallen on your face with an attempt to be an internet tough guy, don’t follow up with posts trying to be an insulting smartass. You just end up looking disjointed, confused and desperate. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/65 "2013-07-21T14:59:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well, sometimes dishonest, and other times they really do not fundamentally understand the science involved in biology. I can’t count the number of times I’ve had creationism/evolution discussions with folks who simply cannot understand simple concepts in science. They are operating at a grade school level of science. Actually, if they were operating at a grade school level, it would be a good thing. The vast majority of them haven’t got a frickin’ clue about science of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/66 "2013-07-21T16:21:59Z")
**dougie\_monty,** your post #621 to Voyager in that link was predictable: > [@](#): > > You seem to like the cutesy words, don’t you? “Poofing” and “Goddidit.” That’s nice for a three-year-old, but for someone your apparent age it betokens a snide attitude which deserves a rap in the mouth. Or at least disassociation. Very well. You have made your bed, Smart-aleck, and you can damn well lie in it! I’ve seen this ploy many times, clearly outgunned, pretend to be insulted then look for the exit when your ass is getting handed to you even when it is you doing the insulting. Your post #646 was also equally amusing considering falsification, and to try to blame Voyager as being dishonest for supposedly using some elite scientific legal term that is really a quite common word used and understood by laymen alike on what is meant by it scientifically, most should know of its meaning, especially on SD, and especially a 99er. Which Czarcasm says of you, which referred to your join date, and not realizing what it meant, needing further clarification too was also equally amusing. And now Monty was obviously kidding about you requesting to have your name changed so that nobody confused you with him, and you don’t get this either when I’m sure everyone else got it. I have a cousin very similar to you. He gives us all laughs, unfortunately, we are laughing at him and not with him. And to post this in the BBQ Pit? Damn, dude, you’re truly fucked up! You really thought people would come to your defense after such a poor showing in the other thread? I can’t believe you would even want people to see that damn thing again, preferring to have it buried instead. I love seeing you squirm to the moderators to continue to request to close this thread too, however. Perhaps, they haven’t had time to see it yet, which is why it is still open. 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/67 "2013-07-21T16:29:18Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > I love seeing you squirm to the moderators to continue to request to close this thread too, however. Perhaps, they haven’t had time to see it yet, which is why it is still open. 😉 😃 It’s not like there is a way to report posts directly to the moderators, y’know. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/68 "2013-07-21T16:42:38Z")
> [@simster](#): > > **dougie\_monty** - you really should limit your arguments to things you understand well enough to argue - so far, I’ve not seen a single ‘debate’ regarding religion or science that you had any business being in. > > However, it does look like you might have a unique perspective on this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696922)- Aw, man, thanks for the belly laugh. I need to start opening up more links. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/69 "2013-07-21T16:44:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s not like there is a way to report posts directly to the moderators, y’know. :rolleyes: Until he figures it out, let’s all enjoy the feast, which might be awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/70 "2013-07-21T17:25:07Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Sigh: > Apparently nothing I try works. The last two posts I made were deliberately humorous, in hopes I might convince the others posting that my statements did not originate in an abnormal mentality. Obviously I failed to make even that point. > I read many years ago that those who accept evolution assume that only mentally deficient people (or those apparently so) will attack it, so I started out, including in Great Debates, with three srtrikes against me, without realizing it. I cannot sustain this thread under such conditions, as anyone reading it can see, so I renew my request to the moderator to close it down. ☹ A) Threads in the pit are rarely (if ever) closed by the mods just because they don’t go the way the OP wants them to go. B) Nobody has said that mentally deficient people are the only ones who attack evolution. I don’t know where you “read this”, but it is not correct. Not at all. In fact, I think this is quite rare. More commonly (as stated) are those who lack the basic education, those who have the education and know better, but feel that religion trumps knowledge, and those who make a profit by attacking evolution. I would guess that you are in the uneducated portion. Let me make an analogy. You’re trying to rebuild the carburetor and get the timing right in your 1969 Camero. A very, very smart Kalahari Bushman happens by, and tries to help you. He tells you that you’re doing it all wrong. He does not know the first thing about carburetors, combustion engines, or even cars. He has only seen cars from afar. You try to tell him how the carburetor works and why you need to set up the timing. He JUST. DOESN’T. GET. IT. This is you. You are probably smart. You’re probably good at many things. But you lack the fundamentals of science, biology and evolutionary theory to even enter into the discussion. To compound this, you have access to information that is completely erroneous about evolution. - sometimes deliberately so. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/71 "2013-07-21T18:36:09Z")
Hypothetically, how would you react to someone who joins a discussion of religion and immediately shows he doesn’t know Shruit from Smriti, and whose ideas about karma are half-remembered bumper sticker quotes? Impolite people (of which there are many in this world) would point and laugh, others would suggest he educate himself more before embarrassing himself further, but no one would feel the need to continue to be civil if he insisted on displaying his ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/72 "2013-07-22T00:25:26Z")
> [@simster](#): > > [Direct Link to post that dougie\_monty is refering to](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16485871#post16485871) - go back a page to see the beginning of it and forward to see more of dougie\_monty’s trainwreck of a discussion. Don’t visit the pit for a day or two, and look what happens. The amusing thing is that his post which I first responded to was criticizing a biology book for saying spontaneous generation happened on the early earth. I thought he was criticizing a creationist slant in it, which isn’t that odd considering the sentence wasn’t all that clear. I had to totally rewrite my response to the post where I was accused of calling Pasteur a liar, since my mind did not process his lack of understanding of falsification. But I do appreciate being credited with the coining of “goddidit” - wish it was true. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/73 "2013-07-22T00:29:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Might as well quote a metallurgist claiming that the big bang is “just a theory”. Jastrow clearly has no fucking clue what he’s talking about. I mean, you expect us to take these people’s statements on their merit? Okay. I will - there _is not merit_ to the shit that guy said. It’s the problem lots of people with reputations have - they start to think they know Everything (which was the name of the TV show hosted by the obnoxious professor in **Real Genius**.) You are supposed to turn down reviews for things you know nothing about. There is often a place to specify how much you know about something you’re not an expert in. Jastrow was clearly full of himself. I blame God. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/74 "2013-07-22T01:08:28Z")
**dougie\_monty** , you have been insulted many times in this thread, but you’ve also been told a lot of true things. I can’t help but notice that you seem to prefer to reply in the manner least conducive to discussing creationism and evolution. You’ve largely ignored the polite posts on the subject, and only seem interested in responding to the insults in the others, despite the fact that many of those less polite posts also contain some truth. Do you want a reasoned debate so each side can understand the others’ position, or is it really just petty squabbling you want? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/75 "2013-07-22T04:56:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It’s the problem lots of people with reputations have - they start to think they know Everything (which was the name of the TV show hosted by the obnoxious professor in **Real Genius**.) > You are supposed to turn down reviews for things you know nothing about. There is often a place to specify how much you know about something you’re not an expert in. Jastrow was clearly full of himself. I blame God. are you saying… Goddidit? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/76 "2013-07-22T05:50:29Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Sigh: > Apparently nothing I try works. The last two posts I made were deliberately humorous, in hopes I might convince the others posting that my statements did not originate in an abnormal mentality. Obviously I failed to make even that point. **Dougie\_monty** , I’m not sure how to say this. You’ve been here long enough that I know you’re not trolling, and I think I’ve read what you have to say often enough that I can fairly tell you that you are different. I’m being intentionally vague here, because I don’t claim to know what it is that is different about you. I’m not saying that you have a neurological condition or a personality disorder or an autistic spectrum disorder, though you may (as may any of us). I’m not saying there is anything “wrong with” you. But I think it is very certain that you tend to think and respond to people in a way that falls outside of what most of us would consider “normal.” It could, I suppose, be a cultural difference or a slightly quirky personality. I don’t mean any of this to be pejorative or insulting. I just don’t think you realize how often you miss other people’s humor or attempt humor that other people don’t get or have an emotional response to something that other people just don’t expect. It might help to remember that when someone says something that you perceive as insulting. It might also help other people to be aware of this when they think you’re just being stupid or obtuse ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/77 "2013-07-23T00:46:04Z")
^^I suspected as much myself, but only familiar with these two threads from him. I don’t get out here much. I do hope he functions better in the real world than what he’s shown in these two threads. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/78 "2013-07-23T01:30:52Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > **dougie\_monty** , you have been insulted many times in this thread, but you’ve also been told a lot of true things. I can’t help but notice that you seem to prefer to reply in the manner least conducive to discussing creationism and evolution. You’ve largely ignored the polite posts on the subject, and only seem interested in responding to the insults in the others, despite the fact that many of those less polite posts also contain some truth. Do you want a reasoned debate so each side can understand the others’ position, or is it really just petty squabbling you want? Seriously! He ignored my first post and ignored my second post, while saying that everyone replying to him were hazers and just wanted to make fun of him. I thought that was pretty rude, **dougie\_monty** :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/79 "2013-07-23T07:58:37Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > **Dougie\_monty** , I’m not sure how to say this. You’ve been here long enough that I know you’re not trolling, and I think I’ve read what you have to say often enough that I can fairly tell you that you are different. I’m being intentionally vague here, because I don’t claim to know what it is that is different about you. I’m not saying that you have a neurological condition or a personality disorder or an autistic spectrum disorder, though you may (as may any of us). I’m not saying there is anything “wrong with” you. But I think it is very certain that you tend to think and respond to people in a way that falls outside of what most of us would consider “normal.” It could, I suppose, be a cultural difference or a slightly quirky personality. I don’t mean any of this to be pejorative or insulting. I just don’t think you realize how often you miss other people’s humor or attempt humor that other people don’t get or have an emotional response to something that other people just don’t expect. For the record, \*\*Dougie \*\*is schizophrenic and may not have a sense of humor as we know it. See [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=904791&postcount=30), and the quoted thread in general. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984/80 "2013-07-23T14:57:46Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I have a request for the OP: Would you be so kind as to contact the site administration to change your username? I ask this because we both have “Monty” in the name although mine has the “M” capitalized. Also, I had that a few months before you did. Yikes, man, I’m so glad you posted this. I seriously thought you’d changed your username to **dougie\_monty** , and I was wondering when you’d gone off the rails. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-religious-argument-i-mishandled-in-great-debates-better-handled-here/663984.md?page=5)