# A reminder to new members regarding spelling, grammar and punctuation **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785 "2004-04-13T14:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/61 "2004-04-14T16:39:32Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > ROFLMAO! > > IANA spelling guru, but AFAIK, these are acceptable, IMHO. > > YMMV. I hate all these abbreviations. Does it take THAT much longer to type it out? If you aren’t aware of these, it makes it impossible to make sense of the post. Just type it out, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/62 "2004-04-14T21:27:45Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Daniel, the comma in that instance was stylistically optional. In formal business correspondence I’d have red-pencilled it in; anything the other side of formality I’d’ve left it as is. You seem to have missed point #2. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/63 "2004-04-14T21:29:26Z")
> [@gluteus maximus](#): > > Well, since nobody responded to my Q-tip question, I’ll try another: > > If you find a little sore at the border of your pubic hair region, should you No one’s answered such a question because we’re discussing grammar and punctuation, not pubic areas. Now, if you find such a sore on your colon, we’ll talk. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/64 "2004-04-14T21:50:32Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > In standard American style, the period goes inside the quotation marks. British English tends to put it outside. Ditto the comma. Both styles, however, put question marks, exclamation points, and dashes after the close quote unless the punctuation is part of the quoted text. This is why I’m a smarter man than I was before I joined the SDMB. I was taught differently, so of course like others, I looked it up too. Son of a gun. It’s true. In further clarification, “semicolons and colons _always_ go outside the closing quotation mark”. (Gregg Reference Manual, Sixth Edition) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/65 "2004-04-15T00:43:04Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > In further clarification, “semicolons and colons _always_ go outside the closing quotation mark”. Especially if there’s a sore on the colon. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/66 "2004-04-15T08:08:03Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Blowero, ALL rules of English grammar are arbitrary. I’m sorry, but that’s just not true. For example, whether we write “you and I”, or “you and me” is not _arbitrary_, but rather depends whether it is the subject or object of the sentence. One can figure out the correct usage by evaluating the sentence, making it unnecessary to consult a grammar text. Of course it’s all arbitrary in the sense that words are used to represent abstract ideas, but the application of the rules is _sometimes_ consistent, and not always arbitrary. And yes, I put the comma outside the quotes in protest of a stupid rule. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/67 "2004-04-15T16:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps the best argument for the serial comma is that apocryphal book dedication: “To my parents, Ayn Rand and God”. Oh, that’s funny! I can’t help but wonder if the son of Ayn Rand and God would be humble and self-sacrificing, or the most arrogant mofo who ever lived. Or both!? :eek: My English prof told us that in some compliations, the editors had “corrected” Robert Frost. They changed “The woods are lovely, dark and deep,” to “The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,” It really makes a difference–to the meaning of the sentence, and to the rhythm of the poem. (The three words are not three separate descriptions of the forest. Frost is saying that the woods are lovely _because_ they are dark and deep.) I always use a serial comma when making a list, and I think it should be standard. I think it makes things much more clear. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/68 "2004-04-15T17:19:11Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I’m sorry, but that’s just not true. For example, whether we write “you and I”, or “you and me” is not _arbitrary_, but rather depends whether it is the subject or object of the sentence. One can figure out the correct usage by evaluating the sentence, making it unnecessary to consult a grammar text. Of course it’s all arbitrary in the sense that words are used to represent abstract ideas, but the application of the rules is _sometimes_ consistent, and not always arbitrary. > > And yes, I put the comma outside the quotes in protest of a stupid rule. I meant that all rules of English grammar are arbitrary in their origins. There’s no logic, except the logic of established practice. The established practice is to put commas inside the quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/69 "2004-04-15T18:12:22Z")
> [@Wikipedia](#): > > Virtually all of them favor the conventionally capitalized name, as does the scholarly E.E. Cummings Society, which actively pursues malefactors, and Cummings’ widow. How can you trust her judgement when she is being actively pursued by the entire E.E. Cummings Society? Poor lady. She must be exhausted. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/70 "2004-04-15T19:07:49Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I meant that all rules of English grammar are arbitrary in their origins. There’s no logic, except the logic of established practice. The established practice is to put commas inside the quotes. I know what you meant. I disagree, I explained why, and I gave an example. I did not misunderstand you; I disagreed with you. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/71 "2004-04-15T20:13:59Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > True, for all intensive purposes. You should of known that already. Intents and purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/72 "2004-04-15T20:30:26Z")
> [@Chicago Faucet](#): > > Intents and purposes. 71 posts and folks still haven’t gotten that 1/2 of the posts on here are deliberate mistakes and grammar pet peeves that are constantly brought up? WHOOSH! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/73 "2004-04-15T20:39:14Z")
> [@Chicago Faucet](#): > > Intents and purposes. This is one whooshy whoosh of a thread, let me tell you what. I could care less if folks use improper grammar, but its fun to tease about it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/74 "2004-04-15T21:12:22Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > This is one whooshy whoosh of a thread, let me tell you what. I could care less if folks use improper grammar, but its fun to tease about it. > > Daniel Well I don’t think its appropriate to take a subject as important as grammar and make light of it’s importance. Its an issue that needs addressed. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/75 "2004-04-15T21:20:36Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Well I don’t think its appropriate to take a subject as important as grammar and make light of it’s importance. Its an issue that needs addressed. Oh I’m hoping this is a whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/76 "2004-04-15T21:26:52Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Oh I’m hoping this is a whoosh. You should end interrogatives with a question mark. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/77 "2004-04-15T21:34:26Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > You should end interrogatives with a question mark. > > Daniel Oh I’m REALLY hoping this is a whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/78 "2004-04-15T21:37:56Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Oh I’m REALLY hoping this is a whoosh. “Whoosh” is spelled with two “H”'s. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/79 "2004-04-15T22:03:03Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > “Whoosh” is spelled with two “H”'s. > > Daniel Only if it’s in all caps. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785/80 "2004-04-16T03:12:38Z")
Thank Og. For a minute there, I thought I was going to have to use some smilie’s. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reminder-to-new-members-regarding-spelling-grammar-and-punctuation/239785.md?page=5)