# A restored Sanhedrin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042 "2005-01-28T02:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/1 "2005-01-28T02:58:32Z")
> **[Sanhedrin Rabbis Discuss Sublime, Procedural Issues](http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/75313)** > > The 71 rabbis seeking to fulfill the Biblical commandment of renewing the Sanhedrin continue to meet regularly, solidifying their organizational structure and establishing an agenda of topics. Apparently, 71 Rabbis in Israel have assembled themselves into a restored Sanhedrin. Is this group in any way legitimate & authorized to do this? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/2 "2005-01-28T03:28:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Their most recent meeting was this week, in which they discussed technical and procedural issues, topics for their agenda, and the Halakhic [Jewish legal] and other ramifications of **renewing the Passover sacrifice.** > > \ > > The rabbis were asked to prepare topics they thought the Sanhedrin should deal with, and a fascinating array of topics was produced. In addition to those mentioned above by Rabbi Richman, the list included such issues as: > > - uniform kashrut certification > \*\*\* the precise length of the biblical cubit (with ramifications on many issues, including the location of the altar on the Temple Mount)\*\* > - unemployment > - assisting Anousim from Spain and Portugal and others whose ancestors were forced to convert > - lost Jewish tribes from other parts of the world > - unifying Sephardic and Ashkenazi practices on issues such as prayer liturgy, kitniyot (legumes) on Passover, and glass utensils > - the Sanhedrin’s decision-making procedures > - foreign workers > - unifying the religious parties > \*\*\* restoring the Davidic monarchy\*\* > - an ethical code for Israel’s army (as opposed to the present one, which is based largely on secular sources) > - the establishment of regional “small Sanhedrins” > - the long-missing “t’chelet” blue color > - sending delegations around the country to hear people’s concerns, > and much more. > > Though a lecture on renewing the Paschal offering was delivered at the last meeting, not all of the 71 are yet convinced that the time is ripe for it. Various opinions were put forth, including by those opposed to the renewal of the Passover offering **until the exact location of the Temple altar is determined through prophecy.** :eek: 😕😕 :eek: :eek: :eek: Jesus. Mohammed and Moses, this horseshit could blow the ME to pieces! Is anyone besides the Temple Mount Faithful actually taking it seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/3 "2005-01-28T03:41:29Z")
Wiki on [Sanhedrons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin), for anyone _else_ who has no idea what this is about. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/4 "2005-01-28T04:04:13Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > [Sanhedrin Rabbis Discuss Sublime, Procedural Issues - Israel National News](http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=75313) > > Apparently, 71 Rabbis in Israel have assembled themselves into a restored Sanhedrin. Is this group in any way legitimate & authorized to do this? In short, no. There are a number of requirements that one must fill to sit on the (Great) Sanhedrin. One of the primary conditions is that one must be ordained. Ordination, in this sense, is not the typical ordination that one would receive in a rabbinical seminary. The ordination required here is an unbroken chain of ordination beginning from when Moses laid his hands on Joshua at the end of Numbers. Joshua later ordained others, who ordained others and so on. This ordiantion died out about fifteen or sixteen hundred years ago. There is a provision that it can be restored if a person can be unanimously agreed upon to be ordained. To my knowledge, no such consensus on anyone has been reached. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/5 "2005-01-28T05:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Though a lecture on renewing the Paschal offering was delivered at the last meeting, not all of the 71 are yet convinced that the time is ripe for it. Various opinions were put forth, including by those opposed to the renewal of the Passover offering until the exact location of the Temple altar is determined through prophecy. ??? I thought the Temple was to be rebuilt or brung by the Messiah. From the above it looks like they are waiting for someone they consider a prophet to tell them where to build it. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/6 "2005-01-28T06:29:44Z")
Aren’t these and other controversies supposed to be solved by Elijah the Prophet (Eliyahu haNavi of Pesach fame)? Furthermore, even in the heydays of Jewish pluralism (i.e., during the Second Temple era), only few people challenged or opposed the Sanhedrin. I think only the Essenes were the only people of import who opposed the Sanhedrin (as they opposed most of Jewish society; they had their own calendar too, which plays a role in their rejection of the Sanhedrin). Even Jesus did not oppose the Sanhedrin - he opposed the supposedly corrupt theological movements (Sadduceeism and Pharisaism) and hypocrisy therein, or so it is believed. It’s virtually impossible at this moment for there to be a Sanhedrin or any group of people, no matter how well-qualified, to enjoy the consent the Sanhedrin of old enjoyed. This consent or acceptance is crucial for the very purpose and function of the Sanhedrin. What’s the use of convening a Sanhedrin when its decrees will be ignored? The Sanhedrin is supposed to keep the Jewish world together, united. Establishing and imposing one now will only divide the Jewish world even further. The traditional Jewish response to such issues and questions has been - and I hope haChachamim **Zev** _shlit"a_ and **C K DexterHavn** _shlit"a_ and other experts will correct me if I am wrong - to wait for the Messiah (may he speedily arrive!) and Eliyahu the Prophet (may he also speedily arrive!) to arrive and solve them. (With the world as it is, it will take true miracles for these issues to be solved, for which both personages are well qualified.) If I remember correctly, it used to be a big no-no to do anything to speed along the Redemption. This is one beef (no pun intended) certain Orthodox Jews have with Lubavitcher Chassidim. And trying to rebuild/reestablish the Temple, reestablishing the Sanhedrin, even reestablishing the State of Israel are all seen as attempts to speed up the Redemption, which will only anger _haMaqom_ and _delay_ the Redemption. WRS ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/7 "2005-01-28T14:35:54Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > ??? > > I thought the Temple was to be rebuilt or brung by the Messiah. From the above it looks like they are waiting for someone they consider a prophet to tell them where to build it. Well, that was a problem with the building of the second Temple as well. One of the requirements is that the Altar has to be in it’s precise spot. When the returnees from Babylon wanted to build the Second Temple, they could not do so until a prophet revealed to them exactly where the Altar stood in the First Temple. Presumably, the same problem exists now as well (especially considering that the topology of the mountain has changed quite a bit in the last few thousand years) and will require a similar solution. Elijah (being a prophet) could presumably tell us where the Altar should be when he returns. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/8 "2005-01-28T14:38:37Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > ??? > > I thought the Temple was to be rebuilt or brung by the Messiah. From the above it looks like they are waiting for someone they consider a prophet to tell them where to build it. Just as an interesting side note: One does not actually need the physical structure of the Temple to bring sacrifices. One does need the Altar in it’s proper place. When the retrunees from Babylon arrived, they resumed the sacrificial service as soon as the Altar was built, even before the physical structure of the Temple (walls, etc.) went up. So, while the messiah may actually cause the Temple to be built and brought into full function, one could presumably start bring the Passover sacrifice as long as one had the Altar in it’s precise spot, which even Elijah (who is not the messiah) could show us. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/9 "2005-01-28T15:02:18Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Just as an interesting side note: One does not actually need the physical structure of the Temple to bring sacrifices. One does need the Altar in it’s proper place. When the retrunees from Babylon arrived, they resumed the sacrificial service as soon as the Altar was built, even before the physical structure of the Temple (walls, etc.) went up. > > So, while the messiah may actually cause the Temple to be built and brought into full function, one could presumably start bring the Passover sacrifice as long as one had the Altar in it’s precise spot, which even Elijah (who is not the messiah) could show us. > > Zev Steinhardt So if someone arose claiming to be a Prophet, or Elijah, what qualifications would that person need to meet? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/10 "2005-01-28T15:20:35Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > So if someone arose claiming to be a Prophet, or Elijah, what qualifications would that person need to meet? That, too, is problematic because a prophet has to be recognized by… the Sanhedrin. This can take one of two forms: (1) The presumptive prophet predicts the future (as outlined in Dueteronomy) or (2) an established prophet testifies to the Sanhedrin that the presumptive prophet is a prophet. I would presume that the identification of Elijah would not be an issue. I can’t imagine God wanting to end the exile and send the messiah only to be sure not to send Elijah with the proper ID. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/11 "2005-01-28T15:56:14Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > There is a provision that it can be restored if a person can be unanimously agreed upon to be ordained. To my knowledge, no such consensus on anyone has been reached. > Zev Steinhardt Unanimously agreed upon by whom, **Zev**? The people of Israel? All Jews everywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/12 "2005-01-28T16:10:33Z")
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but could this group be backed by some of the Rapture-Tribulationists, like Timothy LeHay, or Tom DeLay? I recall in _The Hammer_ that one minister has a lot of Jewish supporters, on account of his support for Israel. (I can’t remember the guy’s name, John something or other) ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/13 "2005-01-28T16:18:50Z")
> [@Johnny Bravo](#): > > Unanimously agreed upon by whom, **Zev**? The people of Israel? All Jews everywhere? From what I understand (and I would have to research this further to be certain), it would require the unanimous consent of all rabbis. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/14 "2005-01-28T16:42:08Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > it would require the unanimous consent of all rabbis. [Picks self off floor, holding side; struggles to regain composure] How about 50? 45? . . . 10? Nope, still nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/15 "2005-01-28T17:12:55Z")
As I understand it, the Sanhedrin is made up not of Rabbis, Rebbes, etc. but of _Preists._ Since Hebrew Priesthood hasn’t existed in about 2000 years (right? 😕 ) how does present day Israeli ecumenical leaders “promote” themselves to the status of “priesthood”? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/16 "2005-01-28T17:16:57Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > As I understand it, the Sanhedrin is made up not of Rabbis, Rebbes, etc. but of > _Preists._ > > Since Hebrew Priesthood hasn’t existed in about 2000 years (right? 😕 ) > how does present day Israeli ecumenical leaders “promote” themselves to the status of “priesthood”? Wrong, on all counts, I’m afraid. The Sanhedrin is made up of ordained Rabbis. They could be _kohanim_ (priests), Levites or Israelites (someone from any of the other tribes). In addition, the priesthood is still around today. There are many, many Jews who are _kohanim_. The priesthood in Judaism is hereditary, being passed from father to son. _Kohanim_ today are the first one’s called up to the Torah when it is read in synagogue, bless the congregation on holidays (outside of Israel - everyday in Israel), redeem the firstborn among Jews, are routinely given the honor of leading Grace After Meals, etc. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/17 "2005-01-28T21:08:46Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > the unanimous consent of all rabbis. Wow. Talk about failsafes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/18 "2005-01-29T00:24:24Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > In addition, the priesthood is still around today. Spock was a Cohen! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kohanim\_hands\_Blessing\_sketch.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kohanim_hands_Blessing_sketch.jpg)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/19 "2005-01-29T00:43:27Z")
Actually, Leonard Nimoy has said that he **did** copy the IDIC hand gesture from a kohen’s blessing. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042/20 "2005-01-30T01:56:04Z")
OK, I had a chance to do some research over Shabbos. According to Maimonides (in his _Yad Chazaka_ (Laws of Sanhedrin 4:11), he writes that _it seems to him_ that if all the Rabbis in Israel (as opposed to the Diaspora – ordination can only be granted in Israel) agree on a candidate for ordination, they can confer it upon him. But, he adds, _the matter requires further thought_. The Radvaz (c. 1550) writes that in his time an attempt was made to ordain someone through this method, but the matter was dropped after a unanimous agreement could not be made, especially in light of Maimonides’ less-than-certain ruling. Zev Steinhardt [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-restored-sanhedrin/287042.md?page=2)