# A royal title for Winston Churchill **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721 "2023-04-15T19:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/41 "2023-04-17T07:59:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Are all dukedoms heridtary? Are some reserved for the sons of the monarch? If Andrew had sons would York eventually never be a royal dukedom again? Would they have to make up new ones eventually? Dukedoms are normally hereditary, but the sovereign can grant honours on any terms they like. The king has just made his brother Edward Duke of Edinburgh on a non-hereditary basis. There are certain ducal titles that are commonly awarded to members of the royal family - e.g. the sovereign’s second son is traditionally made Duke of York. But in the nature of things its always possible that they will descend to non-royals. If a royal duke has sons, and they have sons, and they have sons, and so on, after two generations the title is held by a non-royal — this is likely to happen with the Dukedoms of Gloucester and Kent. Eventually the title may fail for want of heirs, in which case it becomes available to be granted to a royal again, but it is not inevitable that this will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/42 "2023-04-17T11:00:45Z")
One of the odd things about the title Duke of York is that ever since it has been customarily granted to the second son, it has never descended to an heir. The second son of the monarch has either died without male heirs (as will likely happen with Prince Andrew), so it reverts, or the second son has become king, as happened with George V and George VI. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/43 "2023-04-17T12:51:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I would say the Duke of Cornwall is inherently royal. Only because they are already the eldest son of the reigning Monarch. so already royal. The title isn’t royal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/44 "2023-04-17T14:12:01Z")
But unlike the Duke of York, Gloucester, etc, Cornwall can never descend away from the eldest son of the monarch. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/45 "2023-07-02T21:24:54Z")
Likewise this dukedom: > **[Duke of Rothesay](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Rothesay)** > > Duke of Rothesay (/ˈrɒθsi/ (listen) ROTH-see; Scottish Gaelic: Diùc Baile Bhòid; Scots: Duik o Rothesay) is a dynastic title of the heir apparent to the British throne, currently William, Prince of Wales. William's wife Catherine, Princess of Wales, is the current Duchess of Rothesay. Duke of Rothesay was a title of the heir apparent to the throne of the Kingdom of Scotland before 1707, of the Kingdom of Great Britain from 1707 to 1800, and now of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northe... ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2023, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/46 "2023-07-04T06:21:18Z")
It’s traditional custom and practice to give male children of the monarch secondary titles acknowledging each of the nations/provinces of the UK. So as the eldest William isn’t just Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall, but also automatically Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron Renfrew, and for good measure Lord of the Isles (tenure of which mattered to the mediaeval kings of Scotland). Likewise Harry is not only Duke of Sussex, but was also made Earl of Dumbarton and Baron Kilkeel. The same was done for the brothers of George VI (Dukes of Kent and Gloucester) and their descendants. The assorted titles for Victoria’s younger sons died out, AFAIK mostly for lack of successive male heirs. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2023, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/47 "2023-07-04T06:32:25Z")
Or because they were a bit too German. The titles of Duke of Edinburgh and Duke of Connaught died out in 1900 and 1942 respectively for want of heirs, but the Duke of Albany was deprived of his title in 1919 for having togged out for the wrong team in the Recent Unpleasantness. There is an heir; in theory Hubertus Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha could petition for the restoration of the title. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721/48 "2023-07-04T14:46:33Z")
Likewise the Duke of Cumberland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-royal-title-for-winston-churchill/982721.md?page=2)