# A Russian President? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540 "2017-01-07T16:54:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/21 "2017-01-07T19:51:57Z")
As Thudlow Boink noted, when America was going through its Cold War period, the enemy was communism not Russia as a nationality. So Trump and his supporters can make the valid argument that being friendly with modern day Russia is different than being friendly with the Soviet Union. As others have noted, Trump and the Republicans won. They can afford to ignore any accusations of foreign influence. By 2018, it will be an old issue. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/22 "2017-01-07T19:53:12Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Something I have been wondering about since before your elections last year, why does it seem that Americans are suddenly so blase about the fact that your president seems to be completely under the thumb of Russia and Putin? > > Maybe it was an inaccurate picture from the media over the years, but when we hear about the Cold war and McCarthy Trials and domino theory and the red menace and all that, we always got the picture that America and Russia were not exactly best buddies, and that many Americans tended to view Russia with a little distrust. > > But here we have Donald Trump, not just being polite to Russia but actually going out of his way to defend Russia and to act in Russian interests, even to the extent of publically blaming fellow Americans for things that Russians did. > > It was obvious throughout the election that he was a Russian puppet, its obvious now that he is a Russian sympathiser and yet it seems that the average American doesn’t really care? So what has changed culturally that has allowed this, why does it seem such a non event that your president is such an obvious stooge for Vladimir Putin? #notallAmericans Luckily, MANY more voters didn’t want him as POTUS than did, but of course the electoral college is the final say and what’s done is done. The Americans who can see the Pestilence-Elect is the most out Russian agent in history are holding our noses while our eyes burn from the stench and we do not like it. But the Average American is not the average voter; in the US we have shit for voter turnout partly b/c the voting system in many places is designed to quell turnout and passively disenfranchise people who have less power. Putin’s hand was visibly up the POTUS-elect’s butt since last spring; but those people who lived through the Cold War felt it was more important to STIGGIT than it is to keep fighting the oppressive Russian gov’t. I’d talk to people and they simply wouldn’t look at the influence Putin and RT have. I lived my first 20 years as an American kid w/ a Russian last name and nary a day in school went by that it wasn’t singled out in some way. Many of those same jerks voted for Trump and I hope their intestines slowly knot and starve them to death in their own waste and bile. Figuratively, of course. There has been a cultural change, but it’s small and limited to people who will likely be dead too soon to enjoy the clusterfuck their votes will have created for the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/23 "2017-01-07T20:01:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Trump is all about winning, and he doesn’t seem to care much how or why he wins. But again, that doesn’t make him a Russian puppet, nor does that make him “completely under the thumb of Russia and Putin”. He’ll use Russia and Putin as long as they are useful, and drop them as soon as they are not. I don’t think Trump can dismiss Putin as easily as he has dismissed his voters. Putin’s smarter and he still has power over Trump. The first time Trump gets uppity, all Putin has to do is casually threaten to leak documents showing how much assistance Russia gave the Trump campaign. Or reveal Russian financial support for Trump’s businesses. I used to work in a prison. And I used to warn new employees about breaking the rules. I told them it wouldn’t be a one time thing. A prisoner would offer you huge rewards for breaking a minor rule and you might be tempted. But once you broke the rule for him, he’d own you because all he had to do was threaten to reveal what you had done. And every time you succumbed and did something for him, his power over you would grow. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/24 "2017-01-07T20:02:54Z")
[“Mr. President, the new Russian Ambassador is here to present her credentials.”](http://thefilmspectrum.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Screen-Shot-2013-12-16-at-10.17.31-AM1.png) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/25 "2017-01-07T20:10:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You can make the case that Trump may not make a very reliable, even somewhat volatile useful idiot for Putin. Trump may not be the kind of puppet that Putin can control as predictably as he’d like. But he’s already done more for Putin than any other candidate for POTUS (R or D) likely would have done. A puppet in the Oval Office doesn’t have to be a robotic slave. Someone who will jump predictably when poked, goaded or stroked is just as useful. And Trump is the kind who doesn’t wait for “Jump!” to finish echoing before he’s tweeting, “Look how high I can jump! Beat that, Obama!” ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/26 "2017-01-07T20:59:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Trump is all about winning, and he doesn’t seem to care much how or why he wins. But again, that doesn’t make him a Russian puppet, nor does that make him “completely under the thumb of Russia and Putin”. He’ll use Russia and Putin as long as they are useful, and drop them as soon as they are not. 😕 And just how has Putin been useful for Trump, exactly? It’s not as though there were all these Putin fans in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania that have been longing for a U.S. president to to kiss Putin’s ass. It’s really pretty obvious. Putin hated Clinton, and didn’t want her to become president. He discovered that Trump was easily manipulated, too–maybe not a puppet, but certainly a useful idiot. Toss in some old KGB tactics, and voila. The only one who benefits from all of this is Putin. Unless, of course, there’s something in those tax returns that we don’t know about already. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/27 "2017-01-07T21:11:26Z")
I take your point, **John** , an alliance between ruthless men is a fragile thing. But…Putin did what he did, Trump swears it never happened. Which at least means he doesn’t believe it. I’ll give him that much, I don’t think he was in on it. Because there is no way in Hell a veteran KGB guy will trust the useful idiot he is using, especially one with a 600 horsepower motor-mouth. This indicates a balance of power that does not favor Trump. And if and when Trump does digest the truth, he ain’t going to like it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/28 "2017-01-07T21:24:55Z")
This by way of _Daily Kos_… > **[Tim Kaine: Why does Trump repeatedly act as Putin's defense lawyer?](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/6/1617680/-Tim-Kaine-Why-does-Trump-repeatedly-act-as-Putin-s-defense-lawyer)** > > Yesterday's Senate hearings on the extensive Russian efforts to get Donald Trump elected U.S. president produced a lot of good sound bites, and much-needed pushback against the right-wing propaganda machine's bizarre efforts to legitimize... [Tweet[ …Old #NSA friend tells me that the term used by Kremlin higher-ups to describe Trump is severely unflattering, much worse than “our bitch”…[/tweet] OK, linguistic smarty pants! What is it? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/29 "2017-01-07T21:26:28Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > 😕 And just how has Putin been useful for Trump, exactly? > > It’s not as though there were all these Putin fans in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania that have been longing for a U.S. president to to kiss Putin’s ass. It’s really pretty obvious. Putin hated Clinton, and didn’t want her to become president. He discovered that Trump was easily manipulated, too–maybe not a puppet, but certainly a useful idiot. Toss in some old KGB tactics, and voila. > > The only one who benefits from all of this is Putin. Unless, of course, there’s something in those tax returns that we don’t know about already. Putin may be useful for donnie in the petroleum thing. Not a consolation, and not useful in a way that helps the citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/30 "2017-01-07T21:52:59Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Something I have been wondering about since before your elections last year, why does it seem that Americans are suddenly so blase about the fact that your president seems to be completely under the thumb of Russia and Putin? Trump seems to think well of Putin. I don’t think it’s wise to draw conclusions beyond that. > [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m also at a loss to explain why Republicans as a whole support a repressive autocrat in Russia more than they do a fellow American who is aligned with the Democratic Party. It’s fucking bonkers. Do they? Just because Trump likes Putin doesn’t mean that Republicans do. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think Trump can dismiss Putin as easily as he has dismissed his voters. I agree. > [@](#): > > Putin’s smarter And more experienced. And far more ruthless. > [@](#): > > and he still has power over Trump. That’s a bit of a reach. It’s by no means certain that Trump is Putin’s puppet. And the problem with puppets - as America has found - is that they have a tendency to do their own thing. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/31 "2017-01-07T21:56:40Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > So what has changed culturally that has allowed this, why does it seem such a non event that your president is such an obvious stooge for Vladimir Putin? I wouldn’t assume that it’s a non-event? I found a Pew poll (post-election) that says > [@](#): > > [**Most Americans** say they are very concerned (45%) or somewhat concerned (20%) that **Trump’s relationships with businesses or foreign governments conflict with his ability to serve the country’s best interests**. These views are little changed from late October, when 42% of registered voters had a great deal of concern over Trump’s potential conflicts](http://www.people-press.org/2016/12/08/low-approval-of-trumps-transition-but-outlook-for-his-presidency-improves/). (emphasis added) Not specifically about Russia, of course, but it shows significant attention on the more general area. One thing to keep in mind is that even for people who don’t trust Trump (i.e., those paying attention), it is hard to focus the mind on one particular area of scandal or potential scandal _because there are so many such areas_. He is slippery in this way. As for why people like Hannity, Coulter, and their fans are turning towards Putin and Assange (and higher deficit spending), I cite Cleek’s Law: > [@](#): > > _Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily_. Not 100% reliable, but when trying to understand the stupider/more venal subspecies of American conservative it has always served me well. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/32 "2017-01-07T21:57:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Trump seems to think well of Putin. I don’t think it’s wise to draw conclusions beyond that. We can speculate intelligently, however. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/33 "2017-01-07T22:06:41Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Trump seems to think well of Putin. I don’t think it’s wise to draw conclusions beyond that. > > Do they? Just because Trump likes Putin doesn’t mean that Republicans do. > > I agree. > > And more experienced. And far more ruthless. > > That’s a bit of a reach. It’s by no means certain that Trump is Putin’s puppet. And the problem with puppets - as America has found - is that they have a tendency to do their own thing. “Do they? Just because Trump likes Putin doesn’t mean that Republicans do.” [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/gop-russia-putin-support-232714](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/gop-russia-putin-support-232714) I think that outside the fox universe it’s pretty well documented. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/34 "2017-01-07T23:02:56Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > “Do they? Just because Trump likes Putin doesn’t mean that Republicans do.” > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/gop-russia-putin-support-232714](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/gop-russia-putin-support-232714) > > I think that outside the fox universe it’s pretty well documented. Did you read it? > [@Politico article](#): > > And it’s even higher today: 37 percent of Republicans view Putin favorably, the poll found in December. **37** %. That’s not even a majority, let alone 100%. You might want a basic understanding of mathematics. I’ll bet some Democrats even liked Lenin - a quick Google throws up Eugene Debs. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/35 "2017-01-07T23:13:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think Trump can dismiss Putin as easily as he has dismissed his voters. Putin’s smarter and he still has power over Trump. The first time Trump gets uppity, all Putin has to do is casually threaten to leak documents showing how much assistance Russia gave the Trump campaign. Or reveal Russian financial support for Trump’s businesses. And Trump can retaliate by threatening nuclear war, or actually doing it. Trying to intimidate a nuclear armed, hot tempered mentally unstable man who doesn’t believe in consequences or the value of anyone but himself is likely to end badly. Backing down to Putin would be “losing”, and we all know how irrational Trump is about that. > [@guizot](#): > > 😕 And just how has Putin been useful for Trump, exactly? He’s harmed America, and will continue to harm America. That’s more than enough reason for him or any other enemy of America to support Trump; and the Republicans too, for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/36 "2017-01-07T23:14:01Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Did you read it? > > **37** %. > > That’s not even a majority, let alone 100%. You might want a basic understanding of mathematics. I’ll bet some Democrats even liked Lenin - a quick Google throws up Eugene Debs. Who said 100%? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/37 "2017-01-07T23:21:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think Trump can dismiss Putin as easily as he has dismissed his voters. Putin’s smarter and he still has power over Trump. The first time Trump gets uppity, all Putin has to do is casually threaten to leak documents showing how much assistance Russia gave the Trump campaign. Or reveal Russian financial support for Trump’s businesses. How much financial support does Russia give to Trump’s businesses? If it’s so bad, then you already know and the info is already out there. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/38 "2017-01-07T23:30:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Who said 100%? BTW: Do you know of any political preference or judgement of any vast population that is 100% ? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/39 "2017-01-07T23:47:51Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Maybe it was an inaccurate picture from the media over the years, but when we hear about the Cold war and McCarthy Trials and domino theory and the red menace and all that, we always got the picture that America and Russia were not exactly best buddies, and that many Americans tended to view Russia with a little distrust. There is “a little distrust” and there is red-baiting. Putin is using US as a bait, an exaggerated cartoonish external enemy in order to achieve certain internal political goals. Reprehensible, right? Well, a lot of politicians in the US suddenly decided that it’s a good tactic to use Russia as a bait, an exaggerated cartoonish external enemy to achieve (admittedly, different) internal political goals. And certain portions of the population swallow the bait hook line and sinker. The current atmosphere on one side of political spectrum (and portions of the other) of red-baiting, including the stupid assertions of “Russian ties” about anyone who ever had any business with Russia resembles quite nicely the McCarthy years. Just wait until confirmation hearings and the “Do you now or have you ever had business or other ties with Russia?” All you need is for Democrats to peel off a few Republicans to start the Congressional hearings where they pull people in and accuse them of being “Russian puppets” and the resemblance will be complete. If partisans on the board here are doing that, why not partisans in Congress? McCain even starts with the same letters as McCarthy. McCarthyism is coming back. As Karl Marx said, history repeats itself, first time as tragedy, second as a farce. The farce has started already. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-russian-president/776540/40 "2017-01-07T23:54:16Z")
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