# A scene from Homer's Odyssey **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2026, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920 "2026-07-25T20:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/1 "2026-07-25T20:52:34Z")
I started listening to an audiobook of The Odyssey. Not far into it there is an account of Odysseus sneaking into Troy and wandering around dressed as a beggar. The goal is to steal the Palladium, an object sacred to Athena. He scouts out the city, goes back to the ships and comes back with a friend, and together they get the Palladium. On their way back, Odysseus attempts to stab his buddy in the back so he could get all the credit. Now, I always assumed Odysseus was sort of a noble, chivalrous kind of guy, but I could handle some character flaws. This is a flaw and a half. It does make him appear somewhat human. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/2 "2026-07-25T21:01:46Z")
No, Odysseus is not remotely noble, he’s more of a forceful, clever man without conscience. He will sacrifice others to advance himself and to satisfy the gods. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/3 "2026-07-25T21:04:49Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Now, I always assumed Odysseus was sort of a noble, chivalrous kind of guy, but I could handle some character flaws. This is a flaw and a half. It does make him appear somewhat human. I would bet a tidy sum that NO movie, tv, comics, or novelization version of the story includes this ‘stab the co-thief in the back’ incident. Because when people adapt these stories they DO want audiences/readers to admire Odysseus, as close to whole-heartedly as possible. The version with the back-stabbing would excite the admiration of only a small group of humans (the sociopaths). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/4 "2026-07-25T21:12:07Z")
Where in the _Odyssey_ does this scene supposedly occur? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/5 "2026-07-25T21:18:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I would bet a tidy sum that NO movie, tv, comics, or novelization version of the story includes this ‘stab the co-thief in the back’ incident. I did find a [summary](https://topostext.org/work/489#34) of a story where > Diomedes and Odysseus are sent to steal the Palladion, and Diomedes climbs on the wall, standing on the shoulders of Odysseus. But he doesn’t pull up Odysseus although he reaches up his hands; he goes to the Palladion and takes it and turns back toward Odysseus. And as they go down through the plain, when Odysseus questions him Diomedes knows the cunning of the man and answers that he didn’t take the Palladion Helenos had said but a different one. Then the Palladion moved, by some daimon, and Odysseus understood it was that one, and a little later draws his sword, wanting to kill Diomedes and bring the Palladion to the Achaians himself. But as he is about to strike (there was a moon), Diomedes saw the glint of the sword. Odysseus was prevented from killing him, since he too drew his sword, and reproaching him for cowardice for not wanting to go in front, Diomedes drove him along striking his back with the flat of his sword. From this comes the proverb “Diomedean Necessity” used for everything done unwillingly. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/6 "2026-07-25T21:22:14Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Where in the _Odyssey_ does this scene supposedly occur? I don’t think it’s in the Odyssey. It’s been a while since I read it, but I don’t remember that scene at all. But I like Diomedes better than I do Odysseus, so go Diomedes, go! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/7 "2026-07-25T21:40:18Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I did find a [summary](https://topostext.org/work/489#34) of a story where Interesting detail there (about the ‘pulling up’ and the differing Palladiums). But I bet it still doesn’t make any adaptation, because that ‘following Diomedes and pulling out his sword to strike him in the back’ is never going to fit the “heroic Odysseus” image that modern audiences expect. > [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t think it’s in the Odyssey Wikipedia says it’s in Virgil’s _Aeneid_ “and other works.” (They’d likely mention if one of those other works were the Odyssey.) > **[Palladium (classical antiquity)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium_(classical_antiquity)#/media/File:Diomedes_with_the_Palladium_approaches_an_altar.jpg)** > > In Greek and Roman mythology, the Palladium or Palladion (Greek Παλλάδιον (Palladion), Latin Palladium) was a cult image of great antiquity on which the safety of Troy and later Rome was said to depend, the wooden statue (xoanon) of Pallas Athena that Odysseus and Diomedes stole from the citadel of Troy and which was later taken to the future site of Rome by Aeneas. The Roman story is related in Virgil's Aeneid and other works. Rome possessed an object regarded as the actual Palladium for sev Si... ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/8 "2026-07-25T21:42:37Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But I bet it still doesn’t make any adaptation, because that ‘following Diomedes and pulling out his sword to strike him in the back’ is never going to fit the “heroic Odysseus” image that modern audiences expect. Something similar worked in _Andor_. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/9 "2026-07-25T21:46:07Z")
I’d love to see _Andor_—it has a great reputation. (Alas: tight budget; no streaming.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/10 "2026-07-25T21:52:31Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Wikipedia says it’s in Virgil’s _Aeneid_ “and other works.” Which is basically Odyssey fanfiction. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2026, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-scene-from-homers-odyssey/1031920/11 "2026-07-25T22:01:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which is basically Odyssey fanfiction. Heh. And then in turn Virgil got turned into a fictional character operated by Dante.