# A School District Finally Brave Enough to Challenge Darwin **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045 "2005-05-02T13:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Guy\_Incognito\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@Guy\_Incognito\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Incognito_1)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/1 "2005-05-02T13:15:07Z")
[Link](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=8360118&pageNumber=0) So it seems that after more than 150 years of tacit compliance and issue-avoidance since Darwin’s _On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection_, one lone school board has finally summoned the courage to take up the mantle of vigilance over this country’s glorious right to religious freedom by challenging a scientific doctrine that has, until today, been revered as unassailable scientific law. It seems these brave crusaders are finally ready to spark an honest debate over evolution in this country, and I, for one, am looking forward to well-reasoned, logically consistent advocacy from both sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/2 "2005-05-02T13:20:30Z")
Hmm… Unassailable doctrinal law versus innerant dogma. I hope both ultimately lose. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![quietman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/958977/32.png) [@quietman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quietman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/3 "2005-05-02T13:35:57Z")
Sorry, I just thought this thread needed a better title. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Incognito\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@Guy\_Incognito\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Incognito_1)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/4 "2005-05-02T13:46:04Z")
> [@quietman](#): > > Sorry, I just thought this thread needed a better title. 😉 Silence, heathen! The Kansas Board of Education will soon show you the error of your words. Show us all, indeed. Just like they did in 1954 with those colored folks. Now let us pray. ---
**Author:** ![guinnog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@guinnog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guinnog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/5 "2005-05-02T13:55:04Z")
> [@Guy\_Incognito](#): > > Silence, heathen! The Kansas Board of Education will soon show you the error of your words. Show us all, indeed. Just like they did in 1954 with those colored folks. Now let us pray. Is that the place whre they put stickers on the textbooks in schools saying that evolution is ‘just’ a theory? Thus labelling themselves as ignorant fucktards not once but twice. Once, not to know that any scientific theory is just a theory. Hence the name. So no disclaimer was necessary. Twice not to understand that as theories go, evolution is up there with gravity. Until someone comes along and finds something new. This is after all the key to why science works and religion doesn’t; experiment and continual refinement of understanding lead to a more complete understanding of the world than just saying ‘I read it in a book so it must be true’. Gah!! ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/6 "2005-05-02T14:05:39Z")
The Bible tells me so !!! HARUMPH !!! 😃 Long live stupidity. Let’s see if we can get our 'Merican students to score at the bottom of them thar math & scientifical tests all the time !!! ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/7 "2005-05-02T14:36:18Z")
> [@](#): > > **From the article** > > Many prominent U.S. scientific groups have denounced the debate as founded on fallacy and **have promised to boycott the hearings,** which opponents say are part of a larger nationwide effort by religious interests to gain control over government. Well that’s just stupid. Moreso, even, than the event they’re boycotting. If no-one’s prepared to stand up and humiliate these retards then they’ll just keep on advancing. Fuck it. I hope that not only is creationism introduced into the Kansas state school curriculum but that evolution is **excised entirely,** along with all materials related to the theory of gravity, the process of pasteurisation and anything that could be construed as portraying secular medicine as being mroe effective than a good prostrated wail to Dr Jesus. Maybe that’ll give the scientific community the kick in the ass it appears to so desperately need. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/8 "2005-05-02T15:19:37Z")
> [@griffen2](#): > > Well that’s just stupid. Moreso, even, than the event they’re boycotting. If no-one’s prepared to stand up and humiliate these retards then they’ll just keep on advancing. Well, if it was going to be a fair hearing designed to seek out the truth, i’d agree with you. But the whole thing smacks more of a kangaroo court to me. Why go in there, just to be sandbagged? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/9 "2005-05-02T15:21:57Z")
> [@Guy\_Incognito](#): > > Silence, heathen! The Kansas Board of Education will soon show you the error of your words. Show us all, indeed. Just like they did in 1954 with those colored folks. Now let us pray. I swear, after I stop having nightmares about the evolution exam I just completed, I’m going to have nightmares about being “cross-examined” by the Kansas Board of Education. Also, I loved this gem: > [@](#): > > Detractors also argue that evolution is invalid science because it cannot be tested or verified Uhh… good to know you guys read all of the hundreds of selection experiments that have been happening for the past 50 years. You know, it’s not even the ignorance that shocks me anymore. It’s the willful delusion in the face of facts. ---
**Author:** ![guinnog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@guinnog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guinnog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/10 "2005-05-02T15:28:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, if it was going to be a fair hearing designed to seek out the truth, i’d agree with you. But the whole thing smacks more of a kangaroo court to me. Why go in there, just to be sandbagged? I remember thinking the same thing when I heard Dawkins wasn’t going to do any more debates with Creationists. Why give them the credibility? From the Salon article referred to in another thread: 'Given his outspoken defense of Darwin, and natural selection as the force of life, Dawkins has assumed a new role: the religious right’s Public Enemy No. 1. Yet Dawkins doesn’t shy from controversy, nor does he suffer fools gladly. He recently met a minister who was on the opposite side of a British political debate. When the minister put out his hand, Dawkins kept his hands at his side and said, “You, sir, are an ignorant bigot.” ’ Sometimes the time for talking is over. Let these ignorant tosspots crawl off and die in a gutter somewhere. Of course that is easy for me to say, living in a country where we don’t let them write the science textbooks. I say: We give the church equal time in schools, when they give science equal time in church. Sounds fair. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/11 "2005-05-02T15:40:16Z")
It should be a short debate: Creationist: “Your honor, I’d like to point out that the Bible supports creationsim.” Judge: “That’s good enough for me. Case closed.” Evolutionist: “Your honor, do I get a chance to say anything?” Judge: “No, I’ll be running for re-election next November.” Evolutionist: “C’mon, please? You promised I’d get to at least talk.” Judge: “Oh, alright, but make it quick.” Evolutionist: “I’d like to submit several hundred scientific studies that support evolution and provide evidence that it’s true.” Creationist: “Objection, I move to suppress any evidence which I don’t understand or haven’t read.” Judge: “Sustained.” Evolutionist: “WHAT?” Judge: “I couldn’t read or understand them either.” Evolutionist: “So the Bible gets submitted as the only evidence?” Judge: “To be fair, I have to admit I didn’t read or understand most of the Bible either.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/12 "2005-05-02T15:44:03Z")
> [@guinnog](#): > > Is that the place whre they put stickers on the textbooks in schools saying that evolution is ‘just’ a theory? > > Thus labelling themselves as ignorant fucktards not once but twice. > > Once, not to know that any scientific theory is just a theory. Hence the name. So no disclaimer was necessary. Actually, you seem to be a bit confused about the definition of the word Theory in regards to its usage in Science. > [@](#): > > Twice not to understand that as theories go, evolution is up there with gravity. Until someone comes along and finds something new. Perhaps you mean “newly discovers.” > [@](#): > > This is after all the key to why science works and religion doesn’t; experiment and continual refinement of understanding lead to a more complete understanding of the world than just saying ‘I read it in a book so it must be true’. Ah, so you’re also confused about what Religion is. Both Science and Religion “work.” ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/13 "2005-05-02T15:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Kansas is holding its own hearings on what school children should be taught about how life on Earth began. > > argues the Earth was created through intentional design Darwinian evolution models neither of these questions. But good on them for trying to fight the evil beast :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/14 "2005-05-02T15:56:04Z")
> [@guinnog](#): > > He recently met a minister who was on the opposite side of a British political debate. When the minister put out his hand, Dawkins kept his hands at his side and said, “You, sir, are an ignorant bigot.” Hadn’t heard that one. Thank you. That quote made my entire week. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/15 "2005-05-02T15:57:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Ah, so you’re also confused about what Religion is. Both Science and Religion “work.” Yeah. The former for the better, the latter for the worse. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/16 "2005-05-02T15:59:14Z")
As a Kansan who happens to be a Christian, whenever I see this so-called “intelligent design” trying to get taught in schools, I always post the following memo from God to the Kansas Board of Education. [http://idiot-dog.com/humor/memo-kc.html](http://idiot-dog.com/humor/memo-kc.html) This has been going on for quite a while. They got a few more conservatives back on the Board, so now the whole weary mess has to be used to embarrass the state again. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/17 "2005-05-02T15:59:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Detractors also argue that evolution is invalid science because it cannot be tested or verified… Unlike creationism? :dubious: News programmes like to point out that Americans are lagging behind in the sciences. Maybe in addition to pointing out that people of other nations are better-educated in this regard, they should also point at Kansas as an example of _why_ American students are falling behind. And there should be some _South Park_ and _The Simpsons_ episodes that lambast Kansas too. ---
**Author:** ![guinnog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@guinnog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guinnog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/18 "2005-05-02T16:01:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Actually, you seem to be a bit confused about the definition of the word Theory in regards to its usage in Science. Do I? Please feel free to unconfuse me then. > [@Monty](#): > > Ah, so you’re also confused about what Religion is. Both Science and Religion “work.” Religion ‘works’ in its own terms I suppose; as a self-perpetuating viral meme. It stops a lot of people having to think for themselves. Science ‘works’ in the broader sense of allowing us to build computers, aeroplanes etc. It encourages people to think for themselves. In fact it depends upon this. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/19 "2005-05-02T16:12:52Z")
> [@guinnog](#): > > Do I? Please feel free to unconfuse me then. It is almost always pointed out in these threads that ‘Gravity’ has the theory tag attached to it as well. A theory doesn’t mean that something isn’t real. In these cases theory means that the actual mechanism of how gravity or evolution works isn’t known, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![guinnog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@guinnog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guinnog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045/20 "2005-05-02T16:39:48Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > It is almost always pointed out in these threads that ‘Gravity’ has the theory tag attached to it as well. A theory doesn’t mean that something isn’t real. In these cases theory means that the actual mechanism of how gravity or evolution works isn’t known, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Yes, that is my understanding of what the word means as well. \*\*Monty \*\*seems to differ though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-district-finally-brave-enough-to-challenge-darwin/302045.md?page=2)