# A school shooting just happened in Madison, Wisconsin \[Dec 16, 2024\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721 "2024-12-16T19:02:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/41 "2024-12-17T13:57:55Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > Though I doubt there was much thought, only prayer. > > I thought prayers were supposed to work ahead of time. - Only the sincere ones. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/42 "2024-12-17T14:08:01Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > We agreed that this is unsustainable. Public schools strive to serve all kids, but at some point Social Services has to help create another solution. Time to reinstitute ‘\*separate but equal’ schools for kids with disabilities like autism or fetal alcohol syndrome, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/43 "2024-12-17T14:28:31Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Time to reinstitute ‘\*separate but equal’ schools for kids with disabilities like autism or fetal alcohol syndrome, eh? Actually the kids with autism tend to be the victims of the sort of out of control children being described. My brother works with such children and he says putting them together creates serious problems; “kids who like pushing buttons put together with kids who are _nothing but_ buttons” is the way he put it. ---
**Author:** ![Frilly\_Heck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90ced4/32.png) [@Frilly\_Heck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frilly_Heck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/44 "2024-12-17T17:43:02Z")
Well, shit. I’m sorry for everyone in Madison who is dealing with the aftermath of this. It’s hard, and the fact that school shootings are so common doesn’t make it easier. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/45 "2024-12-17T19:05:46Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > > > the media will forget all about this by tomorrow > > What do you think the media _should_ do? This thread wasn’t about the school shooting. It was about how when its just kids who die its thoughts and prayer and onto new news by tomorrow. But when a rich and powerful CEO dies its major news for long periods of time, and governments look into special hotlines and counterterrorism forces. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/46 "2024-12-17T19:50:20Z")
One of the local politicians has been pushing back against “thoughts and prayers”. > **[Wisconsin political leaders react after Madison, Wisconsin, school shooting...](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2024/12/16/wisconsin-political-leaders-show-support-after-madison-school-shooting/77028693007/)** > > Some political leaders urged action on gun control laws. > On his personal X account, Pocan said to “be ready for the lack of action on guns by this Congress. Sad.” He responded to several Wisconsin Republicans on X, criticizing them for sending “thoughts and prayers” instead of taking “action.” > > “‘Thoughts and prayers’ offer comfort to the families and communities affected but have not changed our unique reality as Americans. It’s time for action," Pocan said in a later statement. “It’s time for my Republican colleagues to grow a backbone and put our children above the gun lobby by passing commonsense gun safety laws that will save countless lives.” [![](https://i.imgur.com/89qJ6YY.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/89qJ6YY.png) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/47 "2024-12-17T20:39:38Z")
And now there is a Special Report on NBC about the CEO assassin’s possible extra charges. Way to go in making him an effing hero, but yeah, the school shooting in Madison has taken a back seat. Frickin-A. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/48 "2024-12-17T20:58:53Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Way to go in making him an effing hero I worry we’re turning him into the left’s Kyle Rittenhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/49 "2024-12-17T21:19:19Z")
That is so well put that I will steal it. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/50 "2024-12-17T23:15:30Z")
Automatic mainstreaming is NOT a good idea. There are some kids for whom “education” doesn’t make sense to me - those with profound mental disabilities being at the top of that list - but any educator is going to know that kids with certain last names in small towns, or from certain neighborhoods in big cities, probably aren’t going to benefit from going to school either, nor will their peers from associating with them. However, on that off chance that they might, they have to “go.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/51 "2024-12-18T00:44:41Z")
The behavioral problems are a much bigger problem than the “wrong side of tracks” crew that @nearwildheaven seems to cite. The combo of demanding clueless parents and act-out kids precludes the education of everyone else in class. Two of my extended family left teaching over this: the wholesale destruction of public education in the name of including the un-includable. And their asshat parents. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/52 "2024-12-18T01:48:45Z")
> [@Mark Pocan](#): > > “It’s time for my Republican colleagues to grow a backbone and put our children above the gun lobby by passing commonsense gun safety laws that will save countless lives.” A bunch of us were in a Madison bar watching the press conference, when the police chief slipped in a ‘not sure what else could’ve been done…’ I said “We could make guns less accessible to troubled shooters!” By the way, a couple of us had close connections to teachers and students at the school… one of which is still in critical condition. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/53 "2024-12-18T02:20:42Z")
As for “wrong side of the tracks”, my dad was a substitute teacher from 1961 until the early 00s, and he always said that the wealthiest schools had the biggest problems, because they covered them up better. Dad’s degree was in history education, and he left full-time education after a semester because he so drastically disagreed with a lot of what he was called upon to teach, and yep, that was in 1960! He joined the fire department and worked there for 36 years. Miss you, Daddy! One other thing. The last few years, they would put him in with the behavioral disorder classes because in addition to being one of the few people who would do it, they knew he wouldn’t take any crap from those kids. This was actually the only environment where he never at any time experienced any kind of acute fear, even though he encountered some really scary kids there. We did know that they’d probably had even scarier things done TO them in far too many cases. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/54 "2024-12-18T03:03:28Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > but any educator is going to know that kids with certain last names in small towns, or from certain neighborhoods in big cities, probably aren’t going to benefit from going to school either, nor will their peers from associating with them. However, on that off chance that they might, they have to “go.” For the life of me I can’t figure out what you’re referring to here. Kids from bad neighborhoods? Kids from bad families? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/55 "2024-12-18T03:18:14Z")
I suspect it’s a reference to “separate but equal” that was in practice anything but “equal”. IOW, the only way to ensure anything approaching a decent education for minorities or the poor is to force the problem white kids in with the normal white kids. Which will drag the minorities and poor in with them. Which as risible as it sounds actually has a decent basis in historical truth in our benighted racist shithole of a country. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/56 "2024-12-18T03:20:28Z")
They tried a variation of this in the 1970s with forced busing. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/57 "2024-12-18T03:23:35Z")
For small towns, it’s probably more the family. For larger towns/cities, it’s the neighborhood. I don’t agree with it, by the way. Just explaining. I actually do agree that automatically mainstreaming all kids is probably not the ideal solution. The problem is that any attempt to create alternative programs for higher risk kids has, so far, seemed to rapidly fall afoul of racial/economic stereotyping/profiling and cause more harm than good. “there is always a well-known solution to every human problem—neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken If it was easy, anybody could do it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/58 "2024-12-18T03:30:45Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > They tried a variation of this in the 1970s with forced busing. Sorta. And we’re trying it now with “mainstreaming”. Both ideas are failures. They just differ in who and how they fail. As @Zakalwe says so well just above. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/59 "2024-12-18T03:31:45Z")
> [@digs](#): > > A bunch of us were in a Madison bar watching the press conference, when the police chief slipped in a ‘not sure what else could’ve been done…’ I said “We could make guns less accessible to troubled shooters!” Relevant article that is refreshed after each shooting… > **[‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens](https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527/)** > > ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721/60 "2024-12-18T03:33:03Z")
As with health care, a main reason people leave education is because decisions are being made by people who have never worked in the field, let alone the trenches. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-school-shooting-just-happened-in-madison-wisconsin-dec-16-2024/1011721.md?page=4)