[continue hijack] Probably the libraries of Alexandria and Constantinople. The former was probably destroyed accidentally by that famous Muslim Julius Caeser*, although accounts vary and that fire was perhaps not the last–it appears the library was around for centuries after JC. The library at Constantinople was destroyed by the Ottomans, Muslims who preserved a lot of the writings contained therein.
In response to the idea that religion is responsible for the destruction of knowledge, one might note that monks and other religious types did most of the preservation and copying of works prior to the invention of printing. Also, the fact that many wars have been fought by groups of different religions does not mean those wars were fought over religious differences exclusively. [/continue hijack]
I remember being shocked when I found that out, too. The film made it seem like Vera just had a one off problem with one of the women, but that on the whole she was helping a lot of women. It’s scary to think how little recourse women really had before abortion was legalized.
The reason this knowledge needs to be passed on is to ensure that it is available if/when it is AGAIN needed. Having the last person with knowledge of abortificants die in 2050 will really screw over those who need it after Roe v Wade is overturned nationally, oro so restricted (see Oklahoma) as to be all but impossible - in, say, 2065.
What if it’s 1969 again? What do you tell you daughter/neice/whatever? "Gee honey, if only grandma was till with us - she knew how to deal with this.
I see Our Bodies Ourselves is now online. Sometimes the web get things right…
And yeah, a D and C is not nearly as descreet as drinking a glass of something - this is why the anti-choice types are freaking over RU486 - you can’t bomb a pill - the more wide-spread the knowledge base, the longer it will survive.
I have always been of the opinion that abortion is on the verge of becoming obsolete. By 2050, I am pretty sure that we will have an idiot proof contraceptive method (which will probably mean something that will be administered/turned on/whatever by default at puberty in children).
This, of course, assumes that technological advancement doesn’t become stalled by the likelihood that stupid people are probably outbreeding smart people nowadays. We are already in an era where an intelligent person can pretty reliably (though granted not perfectly) avoid unwanted pregnancies. Sure, there are still genuine accidents, but I am convinced that it is mostly the stupid people who haven’t caught on that it is not a great idea to forego condoms “Just this once” or that hey, it may not be a brilliant idea to have a kid when you don’t have a job or education.
Have you been reading this thread at all? Grandma “knew how to deal with it” in ways that were either totally ineffective or carried a high risk of killing the pregnant woman. The people of the future can no doubt think of their own ways to poison or injure pregnant women that will be just as safe and effective – that is, not very.
This is insane.
There is no way I would tell a daughter or a granddaughter of mine how to perform a DIY abortion. Not unless I wanted to go shopping for a tombstone. :rolleyes:
By 2050, perhaps we’ll have artificial wombs?
There is a large, and increasingly politically successful faction in the US who not only don’t want abortion available, don’t want birth control provided to people who can’t afford it, and think a woman’s God-directed job is to bear as many children as possible, but actually have been vocally and stridently against females even being *told how their bodies work and how pregnancy physically occurs! ! !
*
If I had knowledge of a safe and effective birth control or abortion technique, you bet your bippy I would teach it to Celtling, and any other female who would listen. Unfortunately, I only know of bad techniques to warn them against.
Laminaria is a kind of seaweed (kelp) that is formed into thin sterilized sticks that are inserted into a dilated uterus, and expand the opening. I looked it up because I remember an episode of ER where Dr. Luka had a young pregnant girl as a patient. She had fundie parents, I think, but she didn’t want to have a baby nor did she want to undergo an abortion. So Dr. Luka said he would insert this expanding seaweed into the neck of her uterus and she either would, or would not, have a miscarriage. The outcome would be like a coin flip. I don’t know if it worked or not, but I’d never heard of such a thing, so I’m just mentioning it.
And in the worst case scenario, if we HAD to do it your way, it’s not like, “oops, Gramma’s gone, I guess we’ll never know!” No, you do research. There are books and records of these things. Doctors know of ways to cause “miscarriages.” It’s not like it’s a big secret that only older generations know of.
Besides, what makes you think that ALL mothers passed this knowledge on in the past? I come from a Catholic family – I doubt that my grandmothers or my great-grandmothers would have told their daughters how to abort.
Nor would all women have known, just because they were of an older generation.
I think in the worst case scenario where it’s illegal, your best bet would still be to ask a doctor to do it illegally. Obviously, not something that everyone or even necessarily most people would have access to, which is why it must remain legal (and, in an ideal world, should be universally accessible and free, but that’s another thread). But if tomorrow it became illegal, my first thought wouldn’t be to find an old woman and ask her to brew me up some pennyroyal, I’d try to find a doctor willing to do it.
Yes, it’s my understanding that this was what a lot of women did pre Roe v. Wade, although with it being illegal you could never be sure if the doctor you were seeing was competent or even a real doctor.
Another alternative would be going someplace where abortion is legal and getting one performed by a qualified doctor there. Even if Roe v. Wade were overturned, it seems incredibly unlikely that every other country would also outlaw abortion. If my hypothetical future daughter or niece really needed an abortion, I’d take her to Canada or England or wherever we had to go to get one safely. And if we’re positing some dystopian future where not only is abortion illegal but international travel (for women, at least) is heavily restricted then we’re getting into Handmaid’s Tale territory. In that case I’d have bigger problems to deal with than the potential pregnancies of hypothetical relatives.
Penny Royal is effective and safe. Cotton Root is another that is very effective and safe (grow your own or buy it, do NOT ever pick commercially grown for this purpose, the pesticides on it could make your very ill). Always consult a qualified herbalist before attempting. If one knows the herb, dosing info and respects/listens to their body. Quite like pharmaceuticals, you would write yourself a prescription, know the proper dosage and you’d be given a fact sheet of side effects to look out for.
The Higginson Syringe Method can work but once again this takes a skilled hand and someone knowledgeable in the procedure, this knowledge has unfortunately passed into the vapor of time. Although if push came to shove, there would be those who would pursue this knowledge and train themselves.
Then there is Menstrual Extraction - Menstrual extraction - Wikipedia This is a manual suction with a one way valve which eliminates the possibility of an air embolism. This method is what I would use because it’s safe effective and the apparatus is so simple I could buy all of the parts at a Wal-Mart.
Method was so safe and “easy” (you still needed to be trained) that the Jane Collective or Jane, officially known as the Abortion Counseling Service of Women’s Liberation used it to effectively and safely preform 11,000 abortion pre-Roe vs Wade.
There is exactly zero abortion method that is 100% safe. Even in the best of scenarios something can go wrong, because we’re contained in this fragile thing that sometimes just quits. Imagine how much worse DIY methods are.
Heck, some women under medical care still die in childbirth decades after we went to the moon. Reproduction is bloody business.
LOL, I was there in the Capitol for TamponGate, gotta fight it every step of the way but just in case there are enough of us who are trained and willing to preform abortions any way we can to ensure women have mastery of their own reproduction. Watch it guys and gals first they come for abortion next it will be our birth control.
It seems the last few years have made my point about being ready and able to DIY a bit more ‘real’ for the “I’ll just hire someone” crowd.
I remember when the small town girl would go visit “her aunt” in the big city for a few months and come back 5-10 pounds lighter.
And the ‘starlettes’ in Hollywood would ‘go on vacation’ to Sweden (one of the Scandinavian countries where abortion was legal).
But Hey - we may lose abortion and contraceptives (both used to be quite illegal and dangerous), but we got legal weed!
It’s pretty amazing that you started this thread five years ago but have failed to read any of the posts except your own. But keep quinine-ing that chicken!
