# A serious question for gun control advocates: effect of loosening gun laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127 "2016-04-25T21:29:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/221 "2016-05-09T21:33:43Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This reveals that you don’t comprehend how the roster works in CA. . Can we get back to the OP? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/222 "2016-05-09T21:38:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I did. Let us compare all violent crime. Not all crime, nor all “gun crime”. > > All crime is bogus, as we wouldnt expect minor non-violent crimes like bad check writing to be affected at all by guns. All gun crime is also bogus, as if a criminal turns to a knife or a bomb instead of a gun, we havent gained anything. > > So, let us compare all violent crime. No. First, I would like an answer to my question. If you already answered the question I asked, _and not the question you would rather answer_, could you please tell me what post you answered it in? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/223 "2016-05-09T21:44:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No. First, I would like an answer to my question. If you already answered the question I asked, _and not the question you would rather answer_, could you please tell me what post you answered it in? I must be missing something. Are you referring to your question from #214? If so, didn’t he answer it in #217 and again in #220. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/224 "2016-05-09T21:47:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I must be missing something. Are you referring to your question from #214? If so, didn’t he answer it in #217 and again in #220. No. I just want to know about crimes involving guns-period. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/225 "2016-05-09T21:47:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No. First, I would like an answer to my question. If you already answered the question I asked, _and not the question you would rather answer_, could you please tell me what post you answered it in? I just did. Here’s your question: _Is that all crime, or crimes committed with guns?_ Here is my answer: \* Let us compare all violent crime. Not all crime, nor all “gun crime”. All crime is bogus, as we wouldnt expect minor non-violent crimes like bad check writing to be affected at all by guns. All gun crime is also bogus, as if a criminal turns to a knife or a bomb instead of a gun, we havent gained anything. So, let us compare all violent crime.\* Now, if you want \*\* HurricaneDitka\*\* to answer your question, I can’t help you. Violent crime has gone down, overall. [http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/09/violent-crime-rates-still-declining/408103/](http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/09/violent-crime-rates-still-declining/408103/) > **[What's Behind The Decline In Crime?](https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2015/05/28/whats-behind-the-decline-in-crime/#237c68e87733)** > > As U.S. crime rates continue to decline, many experts are looking for answers. One often-overlooked explanation is generational change. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/226 "2016-05-09T21:49:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No. I just want to know about crimes involving guns-period. That wasnt your question. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/227 "2016-05-09T21:53:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That wasnt your question. You modified(rightly, in your mind) half the question, and declared the other half invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/228 "2016-05-09T21:54:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That wasnt your question. There must have been some hidden words in there. They come and go as needed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/229 "2016-05-09T22:04:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > (bolding mine) Is that all crime, or crimes committed with guns? Here is your post in full. What half wasnt answered? Wouldnt it be better to restate your question rather than just saying over and over that it hasnt been answered, since three of us think it has? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/230 "2016-05-10T02:35:03Z")
That is indeed my post in full, which was a response to this post: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In general, Americans have purchased many millions of additional firearms in the last couple of decades, and concealed-carry laws have been relaxed significantly, but crime has fallen. There is nothing wrong with my question, since the post I am referring to didn’t specify “violent crime”. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/231 "2016-05-10T03:47:44Z")
Another opportunity to rephrase your question that you reliably dodge. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/232 "2016-05-10T05:32:48Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Another opportunity to rephrase your question that you reliably dodge. I am not dodging. I am outright refusing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/233 "2016-05-10T05:37:03Z")
It seems obvious to me that he’s not interested in a sincere discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/234 "2016-05-10T06:02:00Z")
I think a sincere discussion might include a look at [this article from Factcheck](http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/gun-laws-deaths-and-crimes/) titled “Gun Laws, Deaths and Crimes”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/235 "2016-05-10T12:38:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about someone giving me a straight answer to the question I asked? In THIS thread? Only after a 30 post questionnaire will your answer be given! (I’m sure someone will say “NUH UH!! it was only 24 posts! You are being dishonest!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/236 "2016-05-10T18:39:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Probably true? Come on, now-you can do better than that. How many guns are on the list, and how many are still available? How many of the 757 guns on the list do you think are still in production? There are about 250 manufacturers that have an FFL license to manufacture pistols in the USA. Most of them do not have a single gun on the list. Most of them are custom gun manufacturers. I think custom guns are for all practical purposes illegal in California. This does not take into account some very large producers from Brazil and the Philippines. As time passes, fewer and fewer of the guns on the list will still be in production. And AFAICT, it will only be a matter of a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/237 "2016-05-10T18:44:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am not dodging. > I am outright refusing. So you are mad that we aren’t answering a question that you are refusing to ask? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/238 "2016-05-10T18:57:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So you are mad that we aren’t answering a question that you are refusing to ask? No, I’m not mad. I fully expect hissy fits when the “wrong” questions are asked from the “wrong” people. It’s almost like we didn’t get the script or something. BTW? This little drama could have been averted if someone had bothered to check to see if the crime rates involving guns had gone up or down, instead of instantly assuming that any question asked off the reservation has just _got_ to be a “gotcha”. It turns out that according to several sources the rates are indeed down as of 2011. Just checking that and stating it would have been so much simpler…but then again, you would have lost the opportunity to put me in my place. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/239 "2016-05-10T19:06:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, I’m not mad. I fully expect hissy fits when the “wrong” questions are asked from the “wrong” people. It’s almost like we didn’t get the script or something. > BTW? This little drama could have been averted if someone had bothered to check to see if the crime rates involving guns had gone up or down, instead of instantly assuming that any question asked off the reservation has just _got_ to be a “gotcha”. It turns out that according to several sources the rates are indeed down as of 2011. Just checking that and stating it would have been so much simpler…but then again, you would have lost the opportunity to put me in my place. :rolleyes: We _still_ dont know what your question was. All the drama was from you refusing to restate the question. No gotchas. No attempt to “put you in your place”. No aggro coming from anyone other than you. Honest confusion over your question and your repeated refusal to tell us exactly what the question was. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/240 "2016-05-10T19:26:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We _still_ dont know what your question was. All the drama was from you refusing to restate the question. No gotchas. No attempt to “put you in your place”. No aggro coming from anyone other than you. > > Honest confusion over your question and your repeated refusal to tell us exactly what the question was. Since I went and got the answer to the question that so confused you, you won’t have to worry about it any more. Do you have anything to say about the [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org) article I linked to titled “Gun Laws, Deaths and Crimes”? I think it relates directly to the topic of this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127.md?page=13)