# A serious question for gun control advocates: effect of loosening gun laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127 "2016-04-25T21:29:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/241 "2016-05-10T19:39:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since I went and got the answer to the question that so confused you, you won’t have to worry about it any more. > Do you have anything to say about the [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org) article I linked to titled “Gun Laws, Deaths and Crimes”? I think it relates directly to the topic of this thread. How do you think it relates? Perhaps you could quote the part of the article you think is relevant. No one really knows if you got the answer to the question because your question was unclear. What was your question and what was the answer? I suspect if you lay out your actual question, and we compare it to your question in post #214 - they wont be the same. Of course, this could be another situation where you’ve added or subtracted words to get to the meaning you really intended. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/242 "2016-05-10T19:55:49Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > How do you think it relates? Perhaps you could quote the part of the article you think is relevant. The article talks about the statistics involving gun laws, gun purchases and crime rates, and the difficulty in tying any of the three together. > [@](#): > > What role do gun control laws play in these statistics? It’s difficult to say. One news report that compiled these same CDC numbers on firearm death rates, by 24/7 Wall Street and published by USA Today, listed several reasons besides gun laws that these states might have high rates of gun deaths (suicides included). Many of the states also have higher rates of poverty, lower educational attainment and perhaps more rural areas that make getting to a hospital in time to save someone’s life difficult. > > But that report also noted weaker gun laws were common among the states with higher gun death rates: “In fact, none of the states with the most gun violence require permits to purchase rifles, shotguns, or handguns. Gun owners are also not required to register their weapons in any of these states. Meanwhile, many of the states with the least gun violence require a permit or other form of identification to buy a gun,” reporter Thomas C. Frohlich wrote. It then goes on to talk about the Brady Center’s state gun law scorecard, published in 2013, which gave higher grades to states with stiffer gun laws, but it goes on to say > [@](#): > > But again, that’s a correlation, not a causation. And the homicide rate statistics don’t show the same pattern. Eight of the 10 states with the highest homicide rates and eight of the 10 states with the lowest homicide rates all got “D” or “F” grades from the Brady Campaign analysis. All in all, it’s a pretty balanced article. Care to take a look at it? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/243 "2016-05-10T20:43:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The article talks about the statistics involving gun laws, gun purchases and crime rates, and the difficulty in tying any of the three together. It then goes on to talk about the Brady Center’s state gun law scorecard, published in 2013, which gave higher grades to states with stiffer gun laws, but it goes on to say > > All in all, it’s a pretty balanced article. Care to take a look at it? I’ve read it. What question that you posed do you think it’s answering? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/244 "2016-05-10T20:49:25Z")
Told you it would take a while 😃 For those of you who don’t seem to understand, deliberately or otherwise, here was the original statement: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In general, Americans have purchased many millions of additional firearms in the last couple of decades, and concealed-carry laws have been relaxed significantly, but crime has fallen. Was John Lott right? More guns, less crime? And here was **Czarcasm** ’s question: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > (bolding mine) Is that all crime, or crimes committed with guns? Which I took to mean “Hey **HurricaneDitka** , I’ve seen your statement and would like some clarification. When you said ‘crime has fallen’ did you mean all crime, or crimes committed with guns?” of course, I have the ability to actually read what people post, and determine what they might mean by the words they use, and also the ability to use context and other written clues as to the nature of the questions and/or answers. I am not simply always looking for a “gotcha” within each question. Then again, I could be wrong, and that is NOT what \*\*Czarcasm \*\*meant, and stand willing to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/245 "2016-05-10T21:04:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The article talks about the statistics involving gun laws, gun purchases and crime rates, and the difficulty in tying any of the three together. It then goes on to talk about the Brady Center’s state gun law scorecard, published in 2013, which gave higher grades to states with stiffer gun laws, but it goes on to say > > All in all, it’s a pretty balanced article. Care to take a look at it? I had already looked at it. Yes, it somewhat disputes the Brady centers bogus correlation being “gun deaths” and gun ownership, since what’s really going on is that states with high gun ownership seem to have lower homicide rates- but higher suicides by gun. No surprise that if there are a lot of gun around, and you wanna off yourself, a gun might be your first choice. But since, IMHO, suicide is a basic human right, I am not terribly concerned with those numbers. (They are saddening, of course.) A quote from the article: _There’s no discernible pattern among those cities, nor clear or convincing evidence in these statistics that shows more gun laws lead to more or less gun crime._ Which is exactly what I have been saying all along. Putting suicide aside, the number of guns do not seem to have a overall effect on the crime rate here in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/246 "2016-05-10T21:24:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’ve read it. What question that you posed do you think it’s answering? I did not say that it answered any question that I posed, as you well know. I said that I thought the article tied in with the subject of this thread. If you think it does, we can talk about it. If you think it doesn’t, I would be surprised, but you are entitled to your opinion. If you ever decide to stop screwing around and give it, that is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/247 "2016-05-10T21:39:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > . > If you ever decide to stop screwing around and give it, that is. The irony, it burns!😛 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/248 "2016-05-10T21:45:49Z")
Yep-this is turning into another “Let’s screw with the supposed opposition” giggle fest. When/if you ever decide to have a decent conversation with those outside your circle of supporters, I may be back. I know when to cut my losses. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/249 "2016-05-10T22:00:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I did not say that it answered any question that I posed, as you well know. I said that I thought the article tied in with the subject of this thread. > If you think it does, we can talk about it. If you think it doesn’t, I would be surprised, but you are entitled to your opinion. > If you ever decide to stop screwing around and give it, that is. If it didn’t answer the question, what did you mean by this (my bold)? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Since I went and got the answer to the question** that so confused you, you won’t have to worry about it any more. It’s so strange to refuse to pose a clear question. Usually folks try to avoid answering. In this case you take it one step further and try to avoid asking! But not before you demand that people answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/250 "2016-05-10T22:05:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yep-this is turning into another “Let’s screw with the supposed opposition” giggle fest. When/if you ever decide to have a decent conversation with those outside your circle of supporters, I may be back. I know when to cut my losses. It seems like we mostly agree on these issues. 😕😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127/251 "2016-05-11T15:13:54Z")
The basic problem is that there are very few questions you can ask that makes legal private ownership of guns seem like the Armageddon that the gun control crowd tries to make it out to be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-gun-control-advocates-effect-of-loosening-gun-laws/753127.md?page=12)