# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/321 "2022-09-21T19:03:10Z")
We literally had Trump pressure the president of Ukraine to drum up a scandal and lo and behold, Hunter’s laptop is the (possibly unwitting) result. And _three years later_ not a single person has made anything close to a convincing case that this laptop… or Hunter Biden… is a serious threat to anyone not named Hunter Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/322 "2022-09-21T19:24:14Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > And _three years later_ not a single person has made anything close to a convincing case that this laptop… or Hunter Biden… is a serious threat to anyone not named Hunter Biden. But an anonymous person in a secret proceeding was asked a question about it. Checkmate liberals. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/323 "2022-09-21T19:42:44Z")
Fuck. Got me. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/324 "2022-09-21T20:29:25Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Even if I agreed with you, that is just … complete nonsense. It may not be the good way of saying it, but if someone makes a baseless accusation about another person, defamation, the appropriate way of dealing with it isn’t to repeat the defamation 10,000 times while countering it with logic and facts. It isn’t to have journalists sit down and respectfully discuss the accusation as though it was anything other than a thoroughly baseless attack on an innocent person. The only way to stop defamation from harming someone is to not repeat it, do not give it respect it doesn’t deserve. Some of the things Sam wants to “discuss” aren’t baseless claims about a person, but are baseless claims about a document, a laptop, an election, the shape of the planet. In a case of defamation, people are left questioning the nature of a person, in these others, people question the nature of just about anything that happens around us. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/325 "2022-09-21T20:31:56Z")
Baby steps folks! Let’s start with the difference between lamb and veal. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/326 "2022-09-21T20:36:16Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Let’s start with the difference between lamb and veal. Lamb is a baby veal right? If we repeat that enough, then it becomes true. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/327 "2022-09-21T20:47:01Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Lamb is a baby veal right? If you had Sam’s extensive experience in the food industry :cough: as a stock boy :cough: you’d know how stupid this question is. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/328 "2022-09-21T20:50:15Z")
No, no, all veal is baby lamb, but not all baby lamb is veal. That’s how it works, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/329 "2022-09-21T20:53:44Z")
I’ve heard so many people wondering if veal is baby lamb lately. There must be something to that point of view. It would be foolish to casually dismiss something that so many people take seriously. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/330 "2022-09-21T20:57:22Z")
And they dragged him away, as he called out “Veal is mutton! Veal is mutton!” (Not sure if my mental image comes across clearly, think Charlton Heston in the end of Soylent Green) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/331 "2022-09-21T21:06:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But it is true that I, and the other right-wing members of the SDMB are a small minority and face a lot of intolerance for our points of view. I haven’t had any issues. But I just use proper cites and real math. If you make a Republican argument using nonsense as your foundation then you end up with nonsense. If you make the same argument, using real live data and logic then you end up with a good, solid Republican argument that, while debated, isn’t going to get pitted nor get you mocked. If you have to use nonsense to make your arguments, though, then fundamentally you must not trust right-wing arguments enough to go hunting for real data. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/332 "2022-09-21T21:22:36Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If you make a Republican argument…using real live data and logic then you end up with a good, solid Republican argument that, while debated, isn’t going to get pitted nor get you mocked. Is that like a good Republican cloth coat?\* And, cite? \*ancient [Pat Nixon reference](https://1gm8d73foqeh1436341icth6-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Pat-Nixon-fed-pigs-during-her-visit-to-China-in-1972.-english.cri_.cn_.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/333 "2022-09-22T00:25:49Z")
Is this a syllogism? Here, let me try… 1. God is Love 2. Love is Blind Therefore, it logically follows that: 1. Ray Charles is God. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/334 "2022-09-22T00:34:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And, cite? > [@Justice Stevens Says Gun Ownership a Threat to Our Constitutional Structure](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-stevens-says-gun-ownership-a-threat-to-our-constitutional-structure/544925/155): > > I have a natural educators tendency. Seeing someone clearly not taking the effort to think is, simply, annoying. Look at the argument that you two are trying to make: “We need to decrease legal guns to lower crime. Comparing legal guns to crime rates doesn’t count.” How does one make that argument with the intention of being intellectually honest? I’ll fully well agree that looking at legal gun ownership and comparing that to crime is farcical, but that’s my point. If there’s no connection, a… > [@Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade (No longer a draft as of 06-24-2022.)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/229): > > I would agree but, more expressly, say that this argument isn’t difficult to adjudicate, it is simply illogical. If we’re saying that fetal life is human then privacy just has no bearing. It’s like saying that so long as you can murder a woman quietly, in the privacy of your home then it’s none of the governments’ business. That’s plainly insane. We have to assume that the judges who decided Roe were not insane so there must be more to the decision than privacy - and specifically about what co… > [@Why are you pro choice or pro life?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/27): > > Functionally, there’s no difference between pro-life and pro-choice. It’s just quibbling over the specific demarcation point for when a new human has been created. If you take a few hair cells from a person or two, turn them into pluripotent cells, turn one into an egg and another into sperm, introduce them to each other, implant into a real or artificial womb, and let the egg grow to maturity, then at the most extreme level you’re saying that you’re killing potential humans every time you let … > [@Is "The Squad" to blame for lack of support for the Democrats these days?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/6): > > Do you think being non-white females has ro do with rubbing people the wrong way? If not, what do you mean? > [@California proposes UHC again, another empty promise to give false hope to their voters?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposes-uhc-again-another-empty-promise-to-give-false-hope-to-their-voters/957413/28): > > The first link notes that the US is 40% of global medical device sales. If you could single out newer innovations, I’d venture to guess that the US would be an even larger percentage. And let’s look at how much we’re spending above Europe. Using a sample breakdown of “where the money goes” from Wales (good enough for a ballpark): Last I checked, salaries in the US for medical workers were relatively similar between the US and Europe - maybe a little higher, like 10-15% or something - dr… > [@I've been asked to help with our community's reopening](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-asked-to-help-with-our-communitys-reopening/852696/12): > > I have been trying to develop an at-home test for determining risk status, with the aim of allowing people to make a determination of whether they should go out, when the doors are opened. And/or to give guidance to people to go get a better set of testing done by a real doctor to figure out how at-risk they are. Personally, that would be my recommendation. Divide people into groups by risk factor and let them out in waves. Having a process like that will make people more willing to wait to go … > [@Bolton book on Trump coming out](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolton-book-on-trump-coming-out/855547/32): > > Bolton all but begged the Democrats to subpoena him. As I recall, he was trying to get himself added to the trial of that other guy to get Congress the right to question people under a White House order to not talk. On the other hand, Pelosi and Schiff kneecapped themselves about as much as humanly possible. And, realistically, the only reason for them to have done so was because they thought it was more useful to use the event as a fundraising venture rather than make any real attempt at pros… > [@Understanding Money Saved](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-money-saved/509802): > > I think this is a bit of a fallacy, though I’m not sure if it’s one with a name or anything. For instance, there’s the recent example that everyone thinks that reducing the price of health care is “good”. If we could set up legislation so that the amount spent per person was half of what it is today, that should be something we do now. Another example is where, in the middle of a recession and when the government is trying to encourage the market to get back to trading and what not, that they … > [@Another CT...what is the real death toll in China? (yeah, another freaking video)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/another-ct-what-is-the-real-death-toll-in-china-yeah-another-freaking-video/850835/130): > > Should such a leak occur, I would just expect China to adjust their numbers and say, “Woops, we missed that one!” It’s not really going to prove anything, if you’re willing to buy into what China says post-hoc. Realistically, to absolutely clinch things, you would need a leak (or recording) from someone in the leadership revealing an active intent to cover up and lie. Minus that and regardless of what information comes out - from the government or individuals - it could always be explained awa… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/335 "2022-09-22T01:02:07Z")
Having sampled some of those posts of yours and followup, I’d agree that you made well-constructed arguments (whether or not I agreed with them) and weren’t pitted or mocked for them. They were however not phrased as being Republican positions (and they tend to be well outside of mainstream Republican thought). It’s hard to imagine a Doper explicitly citing the party platform and G.O.P. leaders who support his/her views and getting a respectful hearing, no matter how factually and logically their posts are presented. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/336 "2022-09-22T01:42:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s hard to imagine a Doper explicitly citing the party platform and G.O.P. leaders who support his/her views Particularly when they “live” in Canada. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/337 "2022-09-22T01:59:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > They were however not phrased as being Republican positions (and they tend to be well outside of mainstream Republican thought). Most of the intelligentsia have either gone silent, gone crazy, or switched sides. Probably, most are quiet or pretending. But you’ll notice how Alaska is on the forefront of electoral reform, despite being a Republican state, so we’re certainly active behind the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/338 "2022-09-22T15:24:40Z")
Since it seems near and dear to @Sam_Stone’s heart, how about this: Sam and JohnT have a factual debate regarding the validity of the information on Hunter’s laptop but per Sam’s suggestion they flip the sides. It shouldn’t be morally repugnant, because it’s a (comparatively) low stakes enterprise, and even most ‘liberal’ individuals acknowledge that Hunter is likely not a being of strong moral fiber. And Sam seems to have done a great deal of research on it. Would that be a fair debate? Sam should do his best to prove that the laptop argument is a nothingburger, and JohnT that it is a massive coverup to protect Biden? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/339 "2022-09-22T15:28:09Z")
It would be _very_ hard for me to keep the snark out of my arguments. It would also require me to _promote_ a chain of events which didn’t happen, and, yeah, I just don’t want to go there. I would do better arguing the success of Reaganomics, to be fair. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/340 "2022-09-22T15:41:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > _promote_ a chain of events which didn’t happen, But that’s the whole point. You just need to lie and obfuscate and make shit up, and then if you win the debate (based on public opinion I guess), then all of your points become TRUTH. Doesn’t even matter if you believe the crap you spew. In this worldview, there is no such thing as objective reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=18)