# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/421 "2023-01-17T01:34:22Z")
Yeah, I should have swapped moron for troll. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/422 "2023-01-17T09:01:56Z")
But trolls _are_ dishonest, lying sacks of shit. I do think that there’s an alternative that doesn’t depend on the hypothesis that he’s a moron. He could just be lazy and/or careless. “On a quick scan this article seems like it backs up what I am saying, I’ll go ahead and cite it. No need to read it all carefully, I must get in my post **now** before somebody posts something else.” I’ve seen people use a cite and admit later they didn’t read it enough to realize it didn’t say what they thought, or that there was context to make their point moot. Not that this is a defense. Not taking the time to read a cite is just as bad as deliberately misrepresenting it. Whether he’s doing it through negligence or dishonesty, it’s the same result and just as much his fault either way, A person can do stupid things without actually being stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/423 "2023-01-17T09:26:33Z")
This is not the first time we’ve seen this sort of “lying by omission” from him (although please don’t make me go back through all his posts for specific examples). He’s a dishonest, lying sack of shit. He’s only “stupid” in the sense that he keeps being so when it never works for him. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/424 "2023-01-17T12:53:15Z")
When I took the trouble to explain why he was wrong about Chat-GPT’s supposed inability to utilize source data when determining output and he slid right past it, I was miffed. I was more miffed (miffter?) that I’d forgotten about this thread before I wasted my time responding. > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > @Lance_Turbo does an excellent job pointing out the dishonesty in his repsonse [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/190). Bravo to this post, by the way. Marvelously well done. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/425 "2023-01-17T13:14:55Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > “On a quick scan this article seems like it backs up what I am saying, I’ll go ahead and cite it. No need to read it all carefully, I must get in my post **now** before somebody posts something else.” > > I’ve seen people use a cite and admit later they didn’t read it enough to realize it didn’t say what they thought, or that there was context to make their point moot. Yup. I’ve done it before myself. When I do, it’s humiliating, and I grovel. @Sam_Stone, in a thread about Musk a week or so ago, made an egregious error. Defending Musk against snark about his apparent ignorance of electric rockets, [Sam cited a “follow-up” Tweet to Musk’s “LOL No [electric rockets]” post in which he explained his thinking.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition/963442/2578) [The problem was the that “follow-up” Tweet was from several years earlier](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition/963442/2598). Sam did admit that he was wrong–but had the chutzpah to [claim that his case was made **stronger**](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition/963442/2599). And then he doubled down to claim that Musk was strictly accurate. When I cited NASA to show he was wrong, the silence was predictable. @Sam_Stone is a profoundly lazy thinker, and blames the disagreements on the laziness of others instead of engaging in some real introspection about why he keeps making so many mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/426 "2023-01-17T13:20:12Z")
My favorite post of this recently in thread was when he said he was no Musk fanboy. It is funny how somehow despite not being a Musk fanboy he always manages to post the most optimistic viewpoint of Musk’s supposed genius. Tesla cutting car costs? This isn’t because of potentially softening demand (as reported by numerous outlets), no, no, no, this is because Musk has the advantage over other EVs and is cutting them off at the knees by dropping prices. Sam, if you’re seeing this, you are absolutely 100% a Musk fanboy. Sorry dude. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/427 "2023-01-17T14:08:33Z")
Now, now. Sam isn’t just a Musk fanboy but a fanboy of all “self-made” billionaires and both would-be and actual right wing autocrats. An equal opportunity fanboy of several types of scum and not just Musk in particular ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/428 "2023-01-17T14:11:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’ve seen people use a cite and admit later they didn’t read it enough to realize it didn’t say what they thought, or that there was context to make their point moot. The title of his cite was “West Virginia Woman Sentenced for Willful Retention of Top Secret National Defense Information and **International Parental Kidnapping** ”. So if he didn’t read enough, it means he didn’t read to the end of the title which is some next level laziness. Plus the part he used to bolster his point (97 months) came after the title. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/429 "2023-01-17T16:10:14Z")
I think he figures that people will not actually read the articles he cites, and just take his word for it. This might work elsewhere in his life, but here at SDMB, he crashes and burns with this technique. The interesting thing is he keeps doing it. He does not learn; “Don’t do that bullshit here, people will read your cites and discover you’re full of shit.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/430 "2023-01-17T16:18:19Z")
@ITR_champion used to be the worst at this. Literally every single time I followed one of his cites, I found that it either failed to support his summary, or actively contradicted it. I suppose @Sam_Stone is following in that tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/431 "2023-01-17T16:34:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > @Sam_Stone is following in that tradition. A legacy of smeg. A smegacy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/432 "2023-01-17T16:39:17Z")
I suspect he also falls afoul of believing that what his chosen news sources tell him is true and will be borne out by evidence. Repeated examples of this not being the case (and indeed of the opposite often being true) have yet to disabuse him of this approach. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/433 "2023-01-17T17:37:58Z")
I don’t merely suspect he does that. I know he does. There’s too much evidence he does exactly that - unquestioningly accepts preferred news sources. It kicks the can down the line - rather than not reading news articles and coming to bad conclusions, he uncritically accepts bad news sources. There’s a meaningful distinction there, i.e. being part of a misinformation ecosystem rather than a lone nutter, and it speaks ill of both his judgement and intelligence that he continues to think he is winning some sort of internet points by posting those here without performing even minimal due diligence on his sources and then by doubling down when anybody calls out the BS. Occasionally falling for bad sources happens to most people. But when it happens every single damned day, it’s something to fix. ---
**Author:** ![ByuBilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@ByuBilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ByuBilly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/434 "2023-01-17T18:21:12Z")
if it ever makes you feel better Johnny I have learned much over the years from many people’s corrections of Sam’s errors. Soon hopefully I’ll learn from my own as well! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/435 "2023-01-17T19:32:31Z")
> [@ByuBilly](#): > > I have learned much over the years from many people’s corrections of Sam’s errors. What a lovely way of looking at it. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/436 "2023-01-17T19:57:18Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > There’s too much evidence he does exactly that - unquestioningly accepts preferred news sources. > > It kicks the can down the line - rather than not reading news articles and coming to bad conclusions, he uncritically accepts bad news sources. I find the above funny (although 100% correct) in light of Sam’s own defense of himself in this very thread. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I try to stick with the facts. However, I’m aware that I also have biases, so when I read something from the left or the right, I tend to go to the other side to read countervailing opinions, then make up my own mind. This always pisses off partisans. But I do the same thing when reading technical documents or 'look at this great new invention!" stories. Trying to find opposing viewpoints and take them seriously is the best way to find the closest thing to the truth. It’s getting harder. And this is why I can’t take Sam seriously - he clearly claims to research both sides, but his research is normally opinion pieces, and he gives the conservative side every benefit of the doubt, while any ‘liberal’ source is scanned to support his acknowledged bias. So it’s unthinking credulous acceptance of right wing sources, and then reading left-wing sources only to cherry pick a piece or two which he can debunk 1% of, which ‘confirms’ he’s right. Previously (and I stated this to him, and will again) I advised that it’s not _just_ sources, and that if he spent as much time picking holes in his preferred bias as he does against liberal sources, he’d be doing better. To this day, he is the perfect example of complaining about the mote in his neighbors eye while ignoring the beam in his own. The best thing I can say about him is that I don’t think he’s a troll, I think he is so emotionally involved in ‘winning’ for his side that he blinds himself to his contradictory behavior. And that he’s consistently lazy in his internet research. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/437 "2023-01-23T06:00:29Z")
[He’s still at it!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/209) > [@Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/209): > > Doesn’t it all depend on what’s in the docs, both for Trump and Biden? If Biden’s documents are just routine, over-classified stuff that he might have taken home and forgotten, this will probably blow over. If those documents contain serious information that would benefit overseas interests, then this is just getting started and Biden is in big trouble. Trump too if that’s the case. > > Both of them were careless idiots. Which one is worse depends on the content of the material they took. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/438 "2023-01-23T13:40:50Z")
He was called out in that thread for seriously misrepresenting a cite. And then he slinks back in the thread a week later and pretends that that shit never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/439 "2023-01-23T15:55:33Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > And then he slinks back in the thread a week later and pretends that that shit never happened. Standard Operating Procedure ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/440 "2023-01-23T19:37:37Z")
Typical of the lying shitstain known as @Sam_Stone. If he gets called out in a thread with solid evidence of his lies or smacked by a mod for something, his MO is to run and hide like the spineless weasel he is until it blows over. He may be silent or make innocuous, non-controversial posts in other threads for a week or two. But he always returns to the scene of the crime and starts smearing feces all over just like normal. I suspect this behavior is how he has avoided any serious consequences from the mods for his trollery over the years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=23)