# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/541 "2023-01-31T18:47:44Z")
It’s possible that Schrödinger’s Fact might also be involved. (A cite is both being accurately referenced and inaccurately referenced simultaneously until you click the link and read it. Though it’s not a real 50/50 in Sam’s case.) ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/542 "2023-01-31T20:54:48Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Although, within the last couple of months, I’m starting to feel that he’s moving past the “win by any definition” slowly into a sea-lionesque politely troll the libs as well. There’s a certain smugness beyond the martyrdom, a very knowing blindness, and the more the board tries to correct his errors (not beliefs, but factual errors) the more that smugness seems to ooze through this posts. He’s trolling. That’s it. And seeing that this thread now has close to 550 posts must make him all proud and tingly. There is no other reason for a person with his purported political views to hang around here. Now, when I say purported, it’s because it fits with his MO. If he’s trolling and actually don’t hold these reactionary beliefs, it perfectly explains his “factual errors” and inconsistencies: _Shit, they’re talking about the difference between propane and butane and which is more eco-friendly. Have to google some stuff._ Someone who actually holds these views would have all their bullet points ready. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/543 "2023-01-31T21:06:48Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Shit, they’re talking about the difference between propane and butane and which is more eco-friendly. Have to google some stuff. “You only like propane because you’re a leftie monkey rando! . I look on with bemused detachment! You only disagree with me because you hate real conservatives with black belts!” (not a real quote. consult doctor before reading.) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/544 "2023-01-31T21:21:17Z")
He’s a smart guy who used to be right about some stuff back when conservative views were still reality based. He has terrible news sources and so is wrong about science, economics, and politics now, again due to conservatives having to deny science, economics, and political reality in order to continue to defend their unpopular and dangerous policies. Other smart guys adjusted to the reality that conservative “think” tanks, etc., have left the fact-based world behind for partisan purposes. They no longer fit in the conservative mold. He hasn’t made that adjustment. It’s a difficult adjustment to make. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/545 "2023-01-31T21:53:02Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > He’s a smart guy who used to be right about some stuff back when conservative views were still reality based. He has terrible news sources and so is wrong about science, economics, and politics now, again due to conservatives having to deny science, economics, and political reality in order to continue to defend their unpopular and dangerous policies. See, this is where I was the first time I posted to the thread way back in #181, and in #199 I was still giving the same benefit of the doubt. But now, as per my last post, I think he’s honestly become a troll. He may not fully realize that’s what he’s doing, or may believe that he’s just trying to get some of his own back, but it’s trolling all the same. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/546 "2023-01-31T21:57:45Z")
I imagine some of that is pushback from the pile-on. I mean, if I were getting this many posts about me, calling me an idiot, a liar, a troll, etc., I would like to think I would change my ways, but I certainly might just start trolling the board. At some point, hopefully, he’ll stop reading right-wing sources and his eyes will clear, and he’ll be back with a big “I’m sorry”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/547 "2023-01-31T22:07:19Z")
I’m reminded of a podcast I heard about Leon Festinger, and the observations that led to his theory of Cognitive Dissonance. He studied a group that believed they were receiving messages from aliens who would rescue them on a particular day from an impending apocalypse. Some of them sold their homes and gave away all their possessions. When the promised day came and went with no rescue, some of the members realized that they’d been wrong and resumed their lives. Not all of them, though. The more committed that people had been, the harder it was to admit they were wrong. Some of them clung ever tighter to their beliefs, found ways to rationalize why their prophecy hadn’t come true, and began proselytizing to others. I’m as human as anyone. I hope I wouldn’t fall into that way of thinking, but I can’t promise it. That’s also why I try not to back people into corners in debates here. Sometimes all it does it make people more committed to defending something that isn’t true. It’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/548 "2023-01-31T22:12:59Z")
I can’t remember a time when it’s been as bad as it is now. Maybe I’m just feeling particularly pessimistic, but I’m terribly worried about the world. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/549 "2023-01-31T22:21:15Z")
You’re not the only one, by a long shot, and it’s one reason why I take those “America’s going the wrong way, say 70 percent of Americans! Woe to Biden” stories with so little respect. There’s plenty of us on the left who think he’s doing a ridiculously impossible job about as well overall as it can be done and still think things are going to hell in a greased handbasket. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/550 "2023-01-31T22:21:16Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The more committed that people had been, the harder it was to admit they were wrong. This is how confidence crimes work. Someone who’s been defrauded may feel that admitting to being a fool is so horrible, they stick with the fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/551 "2023-01-31T22:31:00Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I can’t remember a time when it’s been as bad as it is now. Maybe I’m just feeling particularly pessimistic, but I’m terribly worried about the world. When I was ten or eleven we had classes explaining ABC weapons and which was more likely to kill off humanity. I caught _On the Beach_ on TV one night and was afraid to sleep for quite a few days after. The Vietnam war was raging. Newspapers published photos of starving African kids with swollen/extended bellies and flies in their faces. Over population would lead to food riots by the mid 80’s, claimed some Malthusian doomsday sayers. It all depends on perspective. I can certainly remember a worse time as compared to now. That doesn’t mean I think everything is A-OK and as ever, the human experience is marred by a malevolent universe throwing shit our in our path. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/552 "2023-01-31T22:54:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > if you respectfully point out an error I made in a thread where I make it, I will readily apologize for it there if I think you are correct I’ve been think about this and another interaction I had with Sam came to mind. Sam summarized as cite thusly… > [@Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/133): > > 97 months in jail for taking home classified information. … and then I respectfully pointed out that Sam left out some important context… > [@Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/190): > > Jesus fuck Sam. This is some pretty egregious misdirection. … and Sam never came back to apologize for or even acknowledge his error. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/553 "2023-01-31T22:57:57Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > and Sam never came back to apologize for or even acknowledge his error. That’s because it was not an error. It was a deliberate act of attempted misdirection. He’s not egregiously stupid, which would be his only defense. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/554 "2023-01-31T23:09:45Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > At some point, hopefully, he’ll stop reading right-wing sources and his eyes will clear, and he’ll be back with a big “I’m sorry”. This is probably a bit too much to ask given Sam’s disposition. I’d just be satisfied if he just stopped posting such sources with or without an apology. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/555 "2023-02-01T00:35:28Z")
Yeah, probably. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > and Sam never came back to apologize for or even acknowledge his error. Yeah, this interaction was terrible and an illustration of why he was pitted. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/556 "2023-02-01T00:38:54Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I imagine some of that is pushback from the pile-on. I mean, if I were getting this many posts about me, calling me an idiot, a liar, a troll, etc., I would like to think I would change my ways, but I certainly might just start trolling the board. …I don’t have a problem with Sam. He says stuff that annoys me. He sometimes says things that I consider objectively wrong. So I debate him. I offer a strong case that he’s got something wrong. IMHO I typically win. Perhaps, in his mind, that conclusion is incorrect. But it really doesn’t matter. Maybe I’m just getting old. Or maybe its the state of the world today. But I really don’t see how posting a meme of a fat man with glasses labled “Sam Stone” is funny. This is just some petty school yard bullshit. In a world where this year we are very close to transgender genocide officially becoming law in several states, where the disparity between rich and poor continues to grow, where America has more people locked up per capita than anywhere else in the world, where last year the police in America killed people at record levels, that healthcare is out of reach of the poor and the marginalised, that everyone is just pretending that the pandemic is over, that abortion is banned in multiple states, I really couldn’t care less that Sam was wrong in a thread about something that happened a few years ago. The people on this board who argued that “defund the police” was bad are infinitely more annoying to me than anything that Sam has done, or Sam will ever do. I’m not arguing against the pitting. It’s just that: Sam has never done anything to _me_ that’s deserving of the ire I’m seeing here. I’m as anti-his-opinion on pretty much everything, but every time I’ve engaged him and pointed out he has gotten something wrong, I’ve seen him respond in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/557 "2023-02-01T01:02:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The people on this board who argued that “defund the police” was bad are infinitely more annoying to me than anything that Sam has done, or Sam will ever do. Ummmm… I think you may have missed a fair bit of Sam’s oeuvre there. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Don’t worry about gun control. It’s dead. The riots and [the move to defund the police](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/57) have ensured that. […] > > Violent crime is way up, due to attacks on the police and their subsequent removal from street policing. The cities that accepted [the demand to defund the police](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-improve-trump-s-odds-of-re-election/914869/250) are being particularly hard hit. […] > > Eric Adams just won the Democratic primary in New York, running on a law-and-order platform and explicitly calling out the [‘Defund the Police’ foolishness](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/130) from Democrats. […] > > I can think Biden is a lying, plagiarizing, unintelligent bully who has lost a step due to age, while still [approving of his stance against defunding the police](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1143) and being tough on China. […] > > Eric Adams won in New York City by [repudiating ‘Defund the Police’](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/82) and promising to crack down on crime. […] > > If you don’t want more citizens with guns showing up at riots, [stop defunding the damned police,](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/883) and stop preventing them from using their tools to contain riots. […] > > For example, it was obvious that crime was going to go up after [‘defund the police’,](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/549) and after progressive DA’s stopped cash bail policies and started releasing criminals back into the streets. […] > > The longer violence runs out of control in the big Democratic cities, the more Democrats living in them are going to buy guns. […] [‘Defund the police’ should have been called ‘Arm the people’,](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/newsom-ca-to-pass-texas-style-law-targeting-gun-sellers/955930/29) because that’s the effect it had. […] > > […] [I called ‘defund the police’ crazy,](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-dopers-freedom-convoy/959186/829) not the protests themselves. And guess what? It WAS crazy. […] Believe it or not, that’s not even a comprehensive list of the many times that Sam\_Stone on these boards argued that “defund the police” was bad. Sometime within the past year he seems to have more or less stopped beating that drum so insistently, but I know of no reason to think he’s changed his mind about it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/558 "2023-02-01T01:07:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Believe it or not, that’s not even a comprehensive list of the many times that Sam\_Stone on these boards argued that “defund the police” was bad. …I’m not missing that. Its just that: Sam posts exactly what one would expect a conservative poster to do. Would you expect anything less? It’s the centrists who took up the mantle against the movement that did the damage. And when President Biden said that we needed to “fund the police” at the State of the Union it was clear that the centrists had won. They had control of the House, the Senate, the Executive, and they decided to send a clear message that “we are standing on the side of the police.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/559 "2023-02-01T01:36:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It’s the centrists who took up the mantle against the movement that did the damage. I don’t think it’s possible to meaningfully isolate “centrist” opinion from right-wing propaganda such as Sam is constantly pushing. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/560 "2023-02-01T01:46:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t think it’s possible to meaningfully isolate “centrist” opinion from right-wing propaganda such as Sam is constantly pushing. …the thing is: the metric we are talking about here are “things that I personally find annoying.” And I’m personally more annoyed by faux-progressives that pretend to be arguing for “reform” but are in reality arguing for the status quo infinitely more than a conservative arguing for what conservatives argue for. It wasn’t Sam I was arguing with in the SF DA thread. It was “progressives” who agreed that “something had to be done” about the DA, and that the alt-right propagandist who wrote an article in the Atlantic “probably had a point”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=29)