# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/881 "2023-07-21T06:53:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > On the left, everything is someone else’s fault. If you are a criminal, it’s because your parents mistreated you; if you’re bad at math, it’s because the system is racist against you; if you’re rich, it’s because you profited from the system, stole from others, and were given everything by your parens. Nitpick: I reject this stereotype of “the left” as largely inaccurate, but I will admit that there is a quite vocal minority of what used to be called “bleeding-heart liberals” who do get so absorbed in the effects of systemic and societal influences on individual behavior that they often seem to be entirely ignoring the importance of individual choices. As I’ve noted, conservatives these days aren’t doing a particularly admirable job of modeling personal responsibility either, but that doesn’t excuse that subset of liberals for not paying sufficient attention to it. Other than that, yeah, I basically approve your message. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/882 "2023-07-21T08:34:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, and by the way, the Hunter Biden laptop was real, and the Steele dossier was a pile of horseshit. I got pitted here repeatedly for _telling the truth._ No, you got pitted for lying repeatedly. And now you’re lying about the fact that you were lying. The question of whether an actual laptop existed was never the point (although I’m sure one can find a few people advancing that argument, because one can find people advancing _any_ argument on the internet). The question was always whether the contents of the laptop were as damning as the right persistently claimed them to be, or whether those claims were substanceless disinformation. And the reality appears to be “substanceless disinformation” (or if you prefer, a “pile of horseshit”). But here you are, insisting that the mere existence of the laptop proves that you were right about everything, even though it has been explained to you over and over and over again why this is not so. Likewise, the claim that “the Steele dossier was a pile of horseshit” is also false, given that many of its contents turned out to be true and many of the others remain unsubstantiated. Even FoxNews admitted this at one point. But here you are, lying about it like the lying liar you are. I look forward to your next post blaming everyone else for your fundamental disingenuousness. And on that note… > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > On the left, everything is someone else’s fault. The irony here is that on this board that argument is almost exclusively the province of right-wing posters like **Sam** and others past and present. It’s always everyone else’s fault that he’s lying, everyone else’s fault that he’s been revealed to be lying, and everyone else’s fault that he’s being held accountable for lying. One has only to consider the many “conservatives on this board are being persecuted” threads to encounter that attitude. Conversely (and again, while one can find anyone advocating any position on the internet), the left’s contextualization of bad behavior is more often fact-based than not. Quite a lot of rich people _have_ benefited from the system, _have_ worked to rig the system in their favor to the detriment of others, and _did_ inherit wealth from their parents. Institutional racism in the education system is absolutely a problem. These may not apply in specific circumstances but it’s not wrong to say that they’re common. The right’s promotion of the just-world fallacy does not negate any of that, nor does **Kimstu** ’s accurate comment about the bleeding-heart fringe. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/883 "2023-07-21T09:33:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, and by the way, the Hunter Biden laptop was real What exactly does that mean? 'Cus “was real” is a fucking low bar to go over compared to what was asserted was on it. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/884 "2023-07-21T10:52:12Z")
I fully agree with this. The problem has always been that Sam is, at a minimum, extremely careless with his posts. That was what started this thread. I noticed that the stuff he was posting was pointed out as factually wrong over and over, and Sam struck me as a pretty smart guy. So I legitimately wondered whether he had considered different sources. And his reply really sums up everything. He didn’t see anything he had posted as being factually wrong despite people pointing out the facts being wrong. You can argue a lot of things, but you cannot argue facts. He probably _still_ doesn’t see any problem. In fact, he clearly doesn’t based on his most recent posts. He does not understand that this entire issue is of his own making. What can you do? @Sam_Stone 1. Read your cites carefully before posting (prime example, the left-wing violence article) 2. Read other people cites carefully before commenting 3. Get better sources of information. The ones you are using a deeply flawed, or perhaps you simply are not reading them? 4. Own your mistakes (see the Elon Musk onion article fiasco for a prime example) -or- 1. Continue to have no credibility 2. Continue to be mocked for your laziness (not for being right-wing) 3. Continue to be mocked for not owning your mistakes (not for being right-wing) 4. Get frustrated 5. ??? 6. Profit Your choice, but make no mistake it is _YOUR_ choice. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/885 "2023-07-21T11:43:41Z")
The existence of the laptop is somehow a Holy Grail for serial fabulists like @Sam_Stone. Somehow it doesn’t matter to them that it had nothing newsworthy on it. It’s like Hillary’s emails – “what about her emails?” Doesn’t matter that she didn’t have anything indicating criminal behavior on her emails – it was the implication. And unfortunately, it worked in 2016 – it kept a pall of criminality on her campaign that probably cost her the presidency. “What about the laptop?” is the straw they have left to grasp at for Biden, but they can’t accept that it’s not working. Sam, why do you still harp on the laptop? Why do you think it matters? Porn isn’t a news story. There’s nothing newsworthy on the laptop. So why do you think this somehow scores any points for you? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/886 "2023-07-21T12:05:11Z")
Welcome to the consequences of your own actions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/887 "2023-07-21T12:17:26Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Did any of you ever consider the mental anguish you must have caused people to make them throw away years of being in a community and suicide by mod because they really want to be here but can’t take the pain any more? It sounds like you’re experiencing mental anguish and lashing out. Which, okay. **Start being more mindful of double-checking your claims.** You won’t find the insults vanish, but they’ll drastically decrease. This is in your control. Your refusal to take this simple, clear advice is also in your control. Act in a way that gets you the results you want. Your way of posting–where you post long, complex, confident arguments complete with cites, only the cites don’t say what you claim they say–is maddening. I was watching _Justified_ last night, Season 4 Episode 1. Raylen is arresting a murderer who keeps going on about how his behavior–from pulling a gun on his ex-wife to murdering two drug dealers–isn’t his fault. If you want to watch it, the scene starts at 11:28. > [@Deputy US Marshall Raylen Givens](#): > > You know what your problem is? You got no self-awareness. You think trying to do right by your children excuses everything, even killing men. . . . Any problem, that’s someone else’s fault. You ever hear of the saying, “You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole”? Raylen’s a terrible mess of a cop, but sometimes he’s real perceptive. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/888 "2023-07-21T12:19:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **mindful of double-checking your claims.** You won’t find the insults vanish, but they’ll drastically decrease. If he did that long enough to regain some credibility, then I do think they would go away. But it will take some time and effort. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/889 "2023-07-21T12:20:34Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > If he did that long enough to regain some credibility, then I do think they would go away. Assholery isn’t confined to the right. There are plenty of leftist assholes, and some of them are on these boards, and will insult @Sam_Stone even if he starts behaving better. The insults won’t vanish entirely. But people like me, exasperated with his chronic mendacity, won’t be taking him to task any more. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/890 "2023-07-21T12:23:04Z")
That’s true. I meant more of the taking him to task type reactions. Like you, I’m just so tired of his BS. I find it _extremely_ frustrating, precisely because I know he can do better because he does generally better on technical subjects. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/891 "2023-07-21T12:38:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your way of posting–where you post long, complex, confident arguments complete with cites, only the cites don’t say what you claim they say–is maddening. Ugh, yes, exactly this! I think the problem is that Sam has gone down the right-wing media rabbit hole (in a way that, say, **Sage Rat** hasn’t) and is not aware of it. So, he’s constantly being lied to and, after a while, he fell for the lies. Then he comes here ready to go with arguments based on lies (not his lies) and gets pushback. So, he goes looking for cites that seem to agree with him, and they don’t (if they’re good cites), which adds to the frustration of those trying to engage with him. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/892 "2023-07-21T13:03:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Conservatives often seem to regard apologizing, especially for unintentional misbehavior, as a sign of weakness or humiliating subjection to “the enemy”. [As the Duke said…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oGe99613pI) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/893 "2023-07-21T13:09:16Z")
You seem to be implying this is some recent phenomenon. Sam has always been like that. [Whining](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illogical-environmental-left/64934) about the left in general, and being all snowflakey about the leftist posters here in particular, is his default state: > [@Pitting Great Debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-great-debates/248019): > > Great Debates has jumped the shark. I can remember a time when we actually used to discuss whether Great Debates was biased to the left, and there were good arguments for and against that proposition. This is no longer true. Great debates is now as radical a message board as you’re likely to find. It is WAY, WAY over on the fringe left. As of this moment, these threads are on the first page of GD: \*\* Did America Deserve 9/11? “Screw the Planet! I’m an American!” Guantanamo, Holocaust P… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/894 "2023-07-21T13:15:54Z")
Post 19 sums everything up so well! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/895 "2023-07-21T13:16:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Whining](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illogical-environmental-left/64934) about the left in general That thread contains a lot of worry about $2 a gallon gas prices. Ahhh, it was a simpler time… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/896 "2023-07-21T13:16:34Z")
I think he’s gotten worse in terms of factual accuracy as he’s gone further down the right-wing media rabbit hole. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/897 "2023-07-21T13:17:44Z")
> [@Pitting Great Debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-great-debates/248019/19): > > > [@](#): > > > > For instance, worrying that Bush is about to ‘take over’ and become a dictator > > Uh, excuse me Sam, but you need to actually _look_ at the threads you are criticizing. That happens to be a right-wing thread that was _bitching_ about people who supposedly think Bush wants to become a dictator. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Post 19 sums everything up so well! Wow, you’re right! 20 years and he still hasn’t figured out how to read a cite. > [@Pitting Great Debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-great-debates/248019/19): > > > [@](#): > > > > For instance, worrying that Bush is about to ‘take over’ and become a dictator > > Uh, excuse me Sam, but you need to actually _look_ at the threads you are criticizing. That happens to be a right-wing thread that was _bitching_ about people who supposedly think Bush wants to become a dictator. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/898 "2023-07-21T13:20:16Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I think he’s gotten worse in terms of factual accuracy as he’s gone further down the right-wing media rabbit hole. See **crow** ’s calling out this takedown post - he’s _always_ had a tenuous grasp of “fact”. Or “reading”, for that matter: > [@Pitting Great Debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pitting-great-debates/248019/19): > > Uh, excuse me Sam, but you need to actually look at the threads you are criticizing. That happens to be a right-wing thread that was bitching about people who supposedly think Bush wants to become a dictator. From the OP in that thread: The OP is “worried” about the “hysteria” of liberals who are supposedly saying that Bush is becoming a dictator. The thing is, the only people who are saying that are an extreme fringe element of democrats. So not only is it a jab at the left from the righ… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/899 "2023-07-21T13:22:58Z")
Haha! That’s a pretty good takedown. This is the second time in a couple of days that I tried to defend Sam and I’ve been shown that he’s worse than I thought, so I’ll stop. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/900 "2023-07-21T13:25:22Z")
If I had known about that 20 year old thread, then I probably wouldn’t have started this one. He’s clearly never going to change. I thought that he was, as you said, somebody who was sliding down into the right-wing cesspool of misinformation and lies, and not somebody who has been there the entire time. You fooled me Sam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=46)