# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/941 "2023-07-29T14:34:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The thing is, I think that hurts the argument of those that are piling on. The OP (offending poster) probably won’t reply to everybody who takes him to task. He can pick and choose the weakest, least-supported posts and reply to them, making it seem like the idea is defensible, but it’s really just the low-hanging fruit. > > Don’t ask for any examples, but I’ve been in threads where interesting ideas were brought up, but people pick the trivial aspect to debunk, and the most difficult, most interesting issues get dropped. Okay, that’s more or less fair summation of the tactics SS uses, where he’ll pick a single point out of 10-20 arguments to technically defeat and claim victory despite ignoring the remaining 99%. I don’t think I’d use the term pile-on for it though, but your intent is much clearer. As for the last point, yeah, well, the better fix would to impose on our overworked unpaid mods to create a more formal debate forum where this tactic (and unsupported supposition, incorrect and poorly sourced cites, and the rest of Sam’s bag of tricks) would get short shrift. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/942 "2023-07-29T17:46:19Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I don’t think I’d use the term pile-on for it though, but your intent is much clearer. I’m not sure that it is clear. If you go back in the thread a little bit, I was saying that when a dozen posters pile on against an unpopular post (or poster) that it doesn’t really add much to a discussion or debate. I’ve been in threads where I read a post I wanted to comment on, but it’s already drawn so many replies that one more from me would probably just get lost in the noise. So I don’t think those pile-ons are necessary, or helpful. In addition to that, they dilute their side of the debate, as I described. Rather than taking strength from the number of posters on one side, they let the unpopular poster pick and choose who he responds to. I didn’t specifically call out @Sam_Stone for that, but what’s the target of a pile-on supposed to do? I post here as a diversion in my spare time. If I had dozens of posters trying to debate me at the same time I wouldn’t have time to do research, find sites, and craft well-considered replies to all of them. (None of which is meant to excuse someone who posts misleading arguments, or mischaracterized cites; but plenty of people have already made those points.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/943 "2023-07-29T17:48:51Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > but what’s the target of a pile-on supposed to do? Take a hint? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/944 "2023-07-29T18:06:50Z")
Would you say the same to a liberal poster who was vastly outnumbered on a conservative message board? I don’t think people can be, or should be bullied into changing their sincerely-held beliefs. The best we can hope for is that people come here with open minds, participate in good faith, and want to learn. That goes for folks on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/945 "2023-07-29T18:08:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Would you say the same to a liberal poster who was vastly outnumbered on a conservative message board? Liberals aren’t usually vastly outnumbered on conservative message boards. They are usually banned. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/946 "2023-07-29T18:10:07Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I don’t think people can be, or should be bullied into changing their sincerely-held beliefs. What does this have to do with Sammy? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/947 "2023-07-29T19:27:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What does this have to do with Sammy? I agree. The main beef with Sam’s posts, the ones that trigger a shit show, are that they’re false or misleading. That’s not to say he doesn’t catch grief for his base beliefs, but ISTM that’s not what leads to all the commotion. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/948 "2023-07-29T19:36:00Z")
Maybe not reading cites and doubling down on inaccurate posts **are** his sincerely held beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/949 "2023-07-29T21:16:27Z")
I’d like to note that Sam hasn’t posted since he last said he was tired of this place, and may have fully flounced. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/950 "2023-07-29T21:55:40Z")
His profile says he was here 14 minutes ago (as of this post). So more of a sulk. If he wants to emulate a flounce he should set it to private. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/951 "2023-07-29T22:23:59Z")
Elmo erected a huge crucifix on the top of Twitter HQ shortly after Sammy’s latest martyr complex meltdown emerged. Coincidence? > [@Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition/963442/5924): > > Elmo has erected a giant X made out of steel girders on top of Twitter HQ. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/952 "2023-07-30T14:33:45Z")
In case he’s reading this, I hope he stays away forever. I’m tired of every thread I might have interest in participating in turning into another episode of the Sam Stone show. I don’t think he adds any any value to this board. Just go away, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/953 "2023-08-29T21:59:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But sure, I’m the problem. Just a ‘snowflake’. But I’m still here, putting up with shit that caused others to flame out. I’m just tired of it. Just bumping to remark this was his last post (July 20th) I hope he’s okay and just tired of us. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/954 "2023-08-29T23:25:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I hope he’s okay and just tired of us Check his profile. He’s here pretty much every day. He was here 2 hours ago. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/955 "2023-08-29T23:32:34Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > He’s here pretty much every day. He was here 2 hours ago. I couldn’t figure out how to do that. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/956 "2023-08-30T00:52:20Z")
Despite this thread, I think Sam is often insightful and at his best very informative. However, he should perhaps rely less on conservative talking points. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/957 "2023-08-30T01:23:11Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > However, he should perhaps rely less on conservative talking points. And read his cites before posting them. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/958 "2023-08-30T02:04:01Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Despite this thread, I think Sam is often insightful and at his best very informative. However, he should perhaps rely less on conservative talking points I’m sorry, though I agree he has had good points, he’s a propaganda mill, and when he states something as fact, I can’t trust that it is true without checking both anything he cites and all the underlying facts I can dig up. He’s just too much work. I give almost any poster the benefit of the doubt, but he’s run out those benefits long ago. He doesn’t serve up facts, he serves up an _agenda_. And his whining about being a victim is unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/959 "2023-08-30T02:49:04Z")
I’m 100% with @squeegee here. Dozens upon dozens of times he has willfully misrepresented information without a casual effort to vet it. Sure, anyone can throw in a bad cite or two, being in a hurry, or even flat out honestly misreading something. To keep on doing so, doubling down, and continuing to misrepresent such on multiple occasions? Hell no. It’s disrespectful to everyone else on the board who might read it, and dishonest to the point that I for one find it indistinguishable from trolling. The “woe is me, everyone hates me” is pathetic, considering the sheer number of people who continue to try to reason with them, give them the benefit of the doubt, or otherwise try to rehabilitate S\_S. If they come back, and if they are able to support their POV with factual information that is consistent with their argument, I’ll still probably disagree with their agenda, but won’t automatically dismiss them based on clear prior evidence. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/960 "2023-09-01T00:09:27Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I think Sam is often insightful and at his best very informative. However, he should perhaps rely less on conservative talking points. Perhaps?!? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=49)