# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/981 "2023-09-18T00:13:26Z")
I’m not trying to persuade him - I don’t think he debates politics in good faith. I’m trying to demonstrate his inaccuracy and dishonesty so others don’t waste time debating him as if he’s arguing in good faith. The only way to engage is to highlight his falsehoods. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/982 "2023-09-18T00:19:12Z")
How the fuck do you get this, > [@wolfpup](#): > > Personally disparaging someone because you don’t like their political views from this, > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In my experience with Sam, finding and pointing out his lies usually frustrates him enough that he goes away, sometimes for weeks. Also, it’s fun. ??? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/983 "2023-09-18T00:31:39Z")
“It’s fun” was a bit triggering, somewhat reminiscent of schoolyard bullies. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/984 "2023-09-18T00:32:55Z")
Sam is a **proven** liar. I’ve straight-out accused him of doing so in this thread and when he pushed back demanding a cite, I gave him one, and then he stopped replying to me because he realized he was caught. It’s one thing to disagree, but it’s another to push your argument through deception. I think in Sam’s case, it’s a mix of deliberate deception and confusion. I think that he sometimes misrepresents things by accident, and other times it’s on purpose. Today in the thread we’re discussing, I’d said that the only member of Biden’s family which is proven to be a criminal (due to admitting that behavior) is Hunter. He countered with cites showing money going to members of the Biden family from foreign sources through LLCs. I said that did nothing to counter what I said, that only Hunter has admitted (or bern convicted) of a crime. He accused me of not reading his cites. I said his cites are irrelevant because they didn’t at all address anything I said which he tried to refute. He countered that they justify an investigation, and refute statements that there is no reason to look into it. I then pointed out that in one of the posts I made that he replied to, I actually said I was okay with an investigation. I’m confident nothing will come of it and don’t trust the Republicans to get anything out of it than more vague things to try to smear Joe, but if they want to investigate go for it. I even quoted myself. He had gone the great lengths to try to counter something I never said, in fact I’d said the opposite. I don’t think he was trying to be a jerk, though he got pretty aggressive, but he was totally wrong. One of his big problems is that he’s sloppy. He has a tendency to contradict himself, claim a cite says something it doesn’t, or claim people said things they never did. I don’t see any of that as malicious. But when he just blatantly lies, that’s where I stop cutting him slack. Mistakes are one thing, even when they seem born of carelessness. But deception is another thing entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/985 "2023-09-18T00:46:02Z")
NM. I screwed up the coding ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/986 "2023-09-18T00:49:32Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Don’t. Engage. With. Him. > > Whenever we’ve had a poster like him over the years, that has always been my advice, but people just can’t resist. Like they think _this time_ he (or his ilk) will say, _“Oh yeah! You’re right! I’m such a dufus. Thank you for setting me straight!”_ > > Yes, he’s tiresome. But the really tiresome thing is the long, pointless discussions that follow when people feel compelled to engage. Don’t. Yes, you’re right. And I say this having just responded to him in that thread. I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/987 "2023-09-18T01:02:32Z")
Gawdammit! My enjoyment of this board went up after he flounced away. Now that “Canadian” shitheel is back to destroy threads. Here is hoping he flounces again soon and it sticks this time. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/988 "2023-09-18T01:05:02Z")
Pointing out how full of shit someone is does not constitute bullying. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/989 "2023-09-18T01:06:07Z")
Someone was asking (it may have been in a post that was subsequently deleted) basically what **Sam** has ever posted that was any good. I hate being in the position of apparently defending a guy with such a long record of right-wing nuttery and well-documented dishonesty, but the answer is, many of his non-political posts are useful and informative. I’m not about to go on a long search, but here’s one link below. My point is obviously not to defend his political mendacity, but to defend him as an otherwise intelligent human being. Here he is giving advice on telescopes from his experience as an amateur astronomer: > [@Amateur Astronomy: Which type of telescope should I start with?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amateur-astronomy-which-type-of-telescope-should-i-start-with/964064/19): > > I’ve been an amateur astronomer for quite a while, and mostly do astrophotography from the middle of a city (A Bortle ‘White Zone’). Here are some tips/observations: From a city you can forget about all the dim objects - nebulas, most galaxies, etc. You can see Andromeda, Orion, and maybe a couple of others, but that’s about it. With astrophotography you can capture a whole lot more, but there are challenges to astrophotography from inside a light polluted area. Your primary targets… ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/990 "2023-09-18T01:10:15Z")
It’s not just politics where he does this. It might be mostly politics but it’s not exclusively politics. He did it in the EV thread as well. He not only made up facts, but because he failed to read even the first few lines of his cites, he provided his own counter-examples proving he made up his own facts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/991 "2023-09-18T01:11:58Z")
Maybe he’s a decent poster in some non political threads, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call out his lies in political threads. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/992 "2023-09-18T01:15:48Z")
I haven’t seen the specific example, but I do know that he’s been on anti-EV tirades from time to time, like claiming that there’s no way the electricity grid can support large numbers of EVs. As with some of his climate change arguments, it doesn’t have to be straight-up pure politics to trigger his worst instincts and habits; being politics-adjacent is enough. But he’s generally fine when a subject is completely politically neutral. When it comes to politics of any kind, he’s completely unhinged. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/993 "2023-09-18T01:30:58Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But he’s generally fine when a subject is completely politically neutral. When it comes to politics of any kind, he’s completely unhinged. The issue is, very little in the world is entirely divorced from a political agenda, even pop culture. Since he has a proven record of not reading his own cites, and is obviously intelligent enough to understand them (I do not in any way doubt his actual intellect) my only reasonable response was to consider him to be a troll in terms of “posting to generate outrage” definition. Upthread (#872 for me) I posted a poll in terms of why people engage - and the majority opinion, outside of those who don’t use the ignore feature at all, is a hope than he’ll change. I think it’s incorrect, and that people who support it believe his facade of reasonableness is the reality, while I’m damn certain it’s a mask over a sneering troll. Those saints that argue with him to preserve some semblance of reality for anyone drifting in to read the board, well, hat’s off, but I can’t do it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/994 "2023-09-18T01:37:15Z")
I really can’t tell if @Sam_Stone is being disingenuous, or if he’s really such an ignorant hick that he doesn’t know how investment banking and business work. All the Bidens are guilty of is being successful in business. He puts out the faux outrage about money being paid to Joe Biden’s “children and grandchildren” like they are literal children, but they are all highly educated and successful grown-ass adults. One of the things successful business people do is get other people to invest in their business ventures. Sometimes they get investors that are from other countries. There are entire legitimate businesses built on attracting foreign investments in exchange for a percentage of the deal. I used to be in business in a large city. I was not nearly as well-off or connected as the Bidens. But I was cracking up as I read the outrage in Sam’s reply, because my response to so much of it was “So did I”. Ohhhh, a Biden received money through a couple of companies that ultimately came from a Russian oligarch. So what, I did that, too. I knowingly took money from a third party connected to a Russian oligarch to provide services to that oligarch. Everything was perfectly legal and above board. And sometimes……frequently…I took payments from clients in excess of 50K, my projects were expensive and my costs were high. I think I even took a payment in excess of 50K from the companies linked to the oligarch. My point is that if you start playing Six Degrees of Separation in the business world, you can link almost everyone to someone shady. Also, payments in excess of 50K are not unusual among successful people. I will say that Hunter Biden knowingly engaged in some risky business ventures, because when you partner with people in countries like Russia and China, you are taking some serious risks and the what may seem to be excessive profits can be fair compensation for that risk. One of those risks is that the corrupt and authoritarian governments of those countries may scapegoat you and outright frame you for non-existent crimes. But I don’t think it was expected that the trumped up persecutions would be coming from inside the house. _ **Sam, please go back to wherever you’ve been holed up for the past few months. You add nothing to this forum but an unpleasant stench, you turn every potential interesting thread into a circle jerk of Fox News talking points and the entire forum was like a million times better when you were gone. Please stay the fuck away from here** _. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/995 "2023-09-18T02:22:23Z")
-applause for a well done and accurate smackdown- ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/996 "2023-09-18T02:26:17Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > _ **Sam, please go back to wherever you’ve been holed up for the past few months. You add nothing to this forum but an unpleasant stench, you turn every potential interesting thread into a circle jerk of Fox News talking points and the entire forum was like a million times better when you were gone. Please stay the fuck away from here** _. That’s the thing, he never really left. As others noted in this thread during his break from posting he was still signing in here almost daily. When he couldn’t take not posting the words “Hunter’s laptop” here any longer, he posted 18 times in two hours. And we seem to have even more to look forward to once he’s done supper. He’s a junkie for whatever kind of fix he gets out of posting here. Count on him continuing to appear in threads, filling them with lies and cites that he didn’t read past the headline of that actually say the opposite of what he claims they do, and turning whatever the topic the thread originally was into another episode of the Sammy show. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/997 "2023-09-18T03:02:57Z")
I think Sam has a better than average grasp of economics and AI. I think he has valuable real life experience. I haven’t seen him around for some time, so why the song and dance now? He does parrot talking points that are partisan and not always relevant. But that ain’t a sin, perhaps he could learn to be more diplomatic. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/998 "2023-09-18T03:06:18Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > perhaps he could learn to be more diplomatic. And perhaps pigs may one day fly. It’s more than clear that Sam has no interest in being more diplomatic. It’s the height of fantasy to hope for something that will so clearly never happen ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/999 "2023-09-18T03:06:29Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I think Sam has a better than average grasp of economics and AI. I think he has valuable real life experience. I haven’t seen him around for some time, so why the song and dance now? He does parrot talking points that are partisan and not always relevant. But that ain’t a sin, perhaps he could learn to be more diplomatic. The “song and dance now” is because he reappeared and starting shitting on the Hunter Biden thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1000 "2023-09-18T03:25:14Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I think Sam has a better than average grasp of economics and AI. Laugh out loud. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=51)