# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1001 "2023-09-18T03:40:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > My point is obviously not to defend his political mendacity, but to defend him as an otherwise intelligent human being. Here he is giving advice on telescopes from his experience as an amateur astronomer: One of the side effects of **Sam** ’s behavior in political threads, is I no longer trust him in non-political threads. His habit of not reading (at best) or out-right lying about (at worst) the contents of his cites gives me no confidence in his answers on literally any other subject. I don’t know a ton about astrophotography. I don’t know that anything in that post you just quoted is _necessarily_ incorrect, but based on his posting history, I’m absolutely not going to trust anything in it. At best, I’d use it as a guide to search for a source that appears more trustworthy, which at this point would be almost any source at all. But mostly, I just discount anything with his name attached out-of-hand, because he’s just so untrustworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1002 "2023-09-18T03:59:22Z")
Was unaware of the return. I don’t have the expectation people will always agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1003 "2023-09-18T04:32:27Z")
WTF? Seriously?! It’s not about holding a different opinion. It’s about outright lying. It’s about bad faith arguments backed by sources Sam has not bothered to properly read. There are all sorts of posters across the political spectrum. The ones who don’t flat out lie and actually bother to do the minimum amount of checking of their sources are accepted. Again, it’s not about a difference of opinions. It’s a difference of values. Most of us appreciate facts and a good faith attempt at backing one’s position. Sam clearly has neither of those. In fact, has a looooong track record of showing his utter disregard for both facts and good faith. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1004 "2023-09-18T07:03:44Z")
How can you ever trust a proven liar? Sam may know a lot about “whatever” isn’t helpful to me because he can’t be trusted to tell the truth. I didn’t miss him and I knew he’d be back. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1005 "2023-09-18T07:17:46Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s a disappointing comment to read. Personally disparaging someone because you don’t like their political views After all that has been posted about him, after all the links to his deceptions and outright lies, you can’t be _that_ stupid. But I’ve got an open mind, so you are welcome to convince me that you actually are. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1006 "2023-09-18T10:57:17Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I think Sam has a better than average grasp of economics… Not really. He’s stuck in 1970s it’s-always-stagflation thinking and trickle-down bullshit. And, if you try to engage on economics, he’ll post a multi-paragraph, uncited rant, covering twenty different econ topics sprinkled with swipes at liberals. He’s impossible to engage with on econ topics. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1007 "2023-09-18T11:01:03Z")
This is about a post from before the most recent mini-flounce. A similar point could have been made using actual numbers, but instead the citation was conveniently misread to overstate the phenomenon. Linking to my own post. > [@Supreme Court poised to strike down affirmative action in Harvard and UNC cases - let's talk about the ramifications (now struck down, June 29, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-poised-to-strike-down-affirmative-action-in-harvard-and-unc-cases-lets-talk-about-the-ramifications-now-struck-down-june-29-2023/981710/240): > > Those aren’t the scores for admitted students. And they average in earlier years when the gap was larger. Since the ample opportunity for self-correction was not taken, I’ll do it myself. The scores presented as “the average scores across the SAT exams” “to get into Harvard” are in fact the scores of applicants. You can tell by the “Among Applicants” and “Among Admits” labels in the legend for the plot these numbers were pulled from. When you mouse over them, there’s even a popup that says “… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1008 "2023-09-18T11:02:57Z")
Even I can’t believe he’s pulled the repeatedly-debunked “But Hunter’s laptop…!” thing again. He’s gone to that well so often he’s just bringing up buckets of dust now. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1009 "2023-09-18T15:45:26Z")
Oh, I don’t deny that dishonesty is on full display in **Sam** ’s political posts. I’m just sometimes surprised at the degree of rancor he elicits. But then, knowing how extreme and totally unhinged his political views are, I haven’t had a political discussion with **Sam** in a long time, possibly not ever, so I don’t experience the same frustrations as some of the other posters here. And he’s a decent enough poster when the subject isn’t politics or something controversial. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1010 "2023-09-18T16:27:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I tend to avoid his political posts, which may skew my perspective. You may not have encountered many of his non-political posts, which are often articulate and informative. 🤔 Uh, are you forgetting how wrong he is regarding climate change issues? Politics does distort a lot of what he should be paying attention when looking at science that runs counter to his politics. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1011 "2023-09-18T16:49:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > are you forgetting how wrong he is regarding climate change issues? Yes, his views are distorted by his political extremism. I think he’s come around on the science, and is now arguing against mitigation policies. Suggest anything to mitigate climate change or promote clean energy, and **Sam** will tell you why it won’t work or would mean the end of civilization as we know it. In fact, based on previous mentions here, as a public service I’ll even start a list of topics to avoid in discussions with Sam, making it a better, happier world for all, including Sam: Others can add to it as they see fit. **Things to never discuss with Sam:** - Politics of any kind, domestic or foreign - Economics - Climate change mitigation, clean energy, or fossil fuels - Electric cars - Elon Musk - College admission policies Avoid those and you can probably have informative, productive, and congenial discussions with Sam. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1012 "2023-09-18T17:48:06Z")
Alright but apart from politics, economics, climats change, electric cars, elon musk and college admissions, when has Sam ever been a shitty poster! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1013 "2023-09-18T17:53:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > He’s gone to that well so often he’s just bringing up buckets of dust now. Mud, not dust. You can’t smear dust. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1014 "2023-09-18T17:54:23Z")
I like it “If you avoid mentioning or thinking about his penchant for kicking puppies, he’s actually a reasonable fellow since his puppy-kicking is irrelevant to anything else he does” That’s some …interesting reasoning right there ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1015 "2023-09-18T18:00:33Z")
“Aside from being shot in the head, how was the play Mr. President?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1016 "2023-09-18T18:46:53Z")
Well, regarding economics, other posters showed how his politics do distort or makes him ignore evidence that shows how shallow he is when economic data are not coming in favor of his conservative views. Like when I was just a bit wrong about the dates of when the Diablo Canyon nuclear plan was closing and how much energy from renewables was supposed to come online before that, only to be shown by a different poster how grossly wrong was Sam about not only the information but also about being ignorant about the “insignificant” already published item that the nuclear plant was not closing because of the delays in the deployment of renewables as I did notice. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1017 "2023-09-19T12:35:36Z")
He’s certainly making a fool of himself in anything Biden related, be it Hunter or be it Joe. He will believe and happily pass on any negative rumor, no matter the lack of evidence, about any Democrat but he will pick the tiniest nits about any criticism of any Republican. He’s just a dickweed and not worthy of all the attention he gets. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1018 "2023-09-19T14:48:59Z")
I have a business degree. There are many views of economics. The conservative economic views I have seen espoused by Sam Stone are, frankly, mainstream and reasonably cogent. You don’t have to agree with them, and I agree provided links are often weak. But one should attack the ball and not the player unless the other makes the first move. If Sam indulged in personal attacks I have not really seen it, but there are many threads I do not read. As for politics, again Sam’s views are fairly popular in Western Canada. I don’t fully agree with a lot of them, I do with some, and the cut-and-paste links don’t convince me or seem well chosen. Most people on this board are more Democrat, but this board is the only place I see contrarian views, as I do not seek these out. Sometimes these are more about fearmongering or obfuscation than honest attempts at debate. Still, since they are widely shared one is perhaps better to be aware of them. I would prefer to see argument than browbeating and diplomacy rather than dogma. Perhaps Sam could use less dogma, this dogma won’t hunt. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1019 "2023-09-19T15:03:46Z")
There’s a massive difference between a well argued point that is unpopular with your audience and a point that isn’t well argued, is cited poorly or actively dishonestly and can’t be defended against counterarguments. Sam’s issue is the latter, not the former. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1020 "2023-09-19T15:12:21Z")
It sometimes is. That may be why I have little interest in Hunter Biden or those threads, who hardly seems like an awesome dude, but has some parallels with pre-political George W. Still one should play the ball, not the player, without due cause. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=52)