# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1021 "2023-09-19T15:18:45Z")
Sam is the same way in a wide variety of political and economic topics. And it goes back to the question - on how many topics does he have to be actively dishonest where you have to start questioning his insights everywhere. It’s similar to a tweet about Elon Musk that I’m going to badly paraphrase: People told me Elon Musk was an expert on electric cars, and I didn’t know anything about electric cars so I assumed he was. Then they said the same about rockets and I again assumed he was. Now they’re saying the same about programming. But I do know programming and I know the things he’s saying are nonsense, so now I’m questioning how much he knew about electric cars and rockets. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1022 "2023-09-19T15:40:39Z")
By actively dishonest are you suggesting he does not believe things he himself posted, or just that one might be credulous to believe disinformation (which hardly seems unique to Mr. Stone)? Are you saying he is mendacious if he can’t defend a point against counterarguments? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1023 "2023-09-19T15:45:55Z")
I think he’s dishonest in that he misrepresents his own cites and also misrepresents counterarguments to his points that he can’t think of a way to engage with honestly without conceding the point. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1024 "2023-09-19T16:00:08Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > By actively dishonest are you suggesting he does not believe things he himself posted, or just that one might be credulous to believe disinformation (which hardly seems unique to Mr. Stone)? He does both of those things at different times. Sometimes he screws up because he doesn’t bother to read what he cites, or doesn’t look into his source. Other times he just says things he knows to be false. I think he does more of the former than the latter, but does enough of the latter to not trust his motives. When he was caught lying it was for really obvious things, we’re talking about claiming someone said something they didn’t, or claiming he never said something that he actually did. Stuff that goes beyond laziness or carelessness, but was clearly deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1025 "2023-09-19T16:25:59Z")
Aww, Sam is just helping us fight ignorance by posting cites and forcing someone else to read it to see if the cite actually says what he claims it does. If one of us doesn’t read his cites, then nobody would have, Sam himself included. I can forgive someone being too lazy to read their own cite once if they own up to it, realize how much of a fool it made them look like and hopefully did at least skim their cite but didn’t read it closely enough to know that it in fact says the opposite of what they wanted it to. Sam hasn’t done this once, he does it all the time and without any of those caveats. He’s done it so many times that you can’t count on Sam having read anything past the headline. It makes him less than useless as a source of facts and information in anything he’s debating, he’s an active source of disinformation about any given topic. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1026 "2023-09-19T17:17:57Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > As for politics, again Sam’s views are fairly popular in Western Canada. I don’t fully agree with a lot of them, I do with some, and the cut-and-paste links don’t convince me or seem well chosen. Most people on this board are more Democrat, but this board is the only place I see contrarian views, as I do not seek these out. Sometimes these are more about fearmongering or obfuscation than honest attempts at debate. Still, since they are widely shared one is perhaps better to be aware of them. I would prefer to see argument than browbeating and diplomacy rather than dogma. Perhaps Sam could use less dogma, this dogma won’t hunt. I have a really well thought out reply to your post, but am off to lunch shortly. Perhaps you could do some research to find some stuff that disproves your points. Thanks. \< s \> ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1027 "2023-09-19T19:14:57Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > When he was caught lying it was for really obvious things, we’re talking about claiming someone said something they didn’t, or claiming he never said something that he actually did. Stuff that goes beyond laziness or carelessness, but was clearly deliberate. Between that and the way he can take over a thread, it reminds me of Dio. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1028 "2023-09-19T19:15:40Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Between that and the way he can take over a thread, it reminds me of Dio. This is the only Dio I know: [![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAXy0GRY1jawlGn_w4B-CdC-nz8RKO4qsKjw&usqp=CAU) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAXy0GRY1jawlGn_w4B-CdC-nz8RKO4qsKjw&usqp=CAU) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1029 "2023-09-19T19:16:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > This is the only Dio I know: and you’re better off for it. Search the board for “The Dio Show” if you want to see someone derail threads like they’re getting paid to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1030 "2023-09-19T20:43:18Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > _ **Sam, please go back to wherever you’ve been holed up for the past few months. You add nothing to this forum but an unpleasant stench, you turn every potential interesting thread into a circle jerk of Fox News talking points and the entire forum was like a million times better when you were gone. Please stay the fuck away from here** _. If you would like a nice calm SDMB, there’s a simple fix: _Stop attacking me._ I have never pitted you, or anyone else in these threads. I have always been civil with you outside the pit. I am here to do what everyone else is here to do - have fun, have some debate, and put my own thoughts out there. That this triggers you into a rage is really not my problem, it’s yours. Stop pitting me and attacking me, and this place will be lovely an peaceful. Keep it up, and I’ll push back. And apparently you don’t like that. Also, I don’t respond to heckler’s vetos. Every time you lash out at me and demand that I leave, it makes me more determined to stay. So you might want to find another tactic for your de-platforming efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1031 "2023-09-19T20:45:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Stop attacking me. Stop posting dishonestly, and people will stop attacking you. You are 100% responsible for the treatment you get here. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1032 "2023-09-19T20:48:30Z")
Weren’t you crying about being pushed to suicide by mod last time you were here? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > How many people have now suicided by mod here due to the pile-ons in the pit? > > But sure, I’m the problem. Just a ‘snowflake’. But I’m still here, putting up with shit that caused others to flame out. I’m just tired of it. Oh yeah, that was you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1033 "2023-09-19T20:49:12Z")
So basically, it is “Piss me off and I’ll troll even harder.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1034 "2023-09-19T20:53:23Z")
I don’t consider pointing out your repeated falsehoods “attacking you”, but if you want to avoid it, stop repeating (and linking to) falsehoods as if they’re fact. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1035 "2023-09-19T20:59:30Z")
The Biden impeachment thread is somehow, I think, my first tête-à-tête with **Sam\_Stone** so I’m giving him nearly full benefit of the doubt. I normally tune out of all Hunter Biden related things so I sort of have an open mind on it all. Those of you who have concluded he is not worth the trouble - why not just ignore him? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1036 "2023-09-19T21:06:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have always been civil with you outside the pit. Posting cites with such cavalier disregard for truth is not civil behavior. You have not behaved civilly. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1037 "2023-09-19T21:06:52Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Those of you who have concluded he is not worth the trouble - why not just ignore him? Two reasons. 1. His misinformation deserves to be countered, **especially** on this web site. 2. I very rarely put a person on ignore. I only have a couple of people. I do so when a person has admitted to trolling, or is posting in such a way to deliberately antagonize me (in other words, trolling without admitting it). Sam doesn’t do that. I do not think Sam is a troll at all, for all of my criticisms of him. Also, let’s be honest, sometimes he posts stuff I agree with, or at least he posts something I disagree with that’s interesting and not total bullshit. I don’t think he’s 100% a bad poster. When he does post something decent, I want to see it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1038 "2023-09-19T21:20:38Z")
What **Kimstu** posted recently about the way Sam posts is relevant here: > [@Climate Change Deniers; What more proof do you need?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/climate-change-deniers-what-more-proof-do-you-need/986958/114): > > Sam, the amount of stuff you’re pulling out of your ass here would give any proctologist nightmares. Nobody is actually advocating for blind unquestioning adherence to every officially published scientific result, or discouraging any serious and informed questioning of research findings. > > But it’s obvious that you’re just deliberately working on manufacturing doubt to flatter the suspicions of the ignorant about climate science as a field, rather than exposing any real-life flaws in its actual scientific practice. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1039 "2023-09-19T22:10:20Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Sam is the same way in a wide variety of political and economic topics. And it goes back to the question - on how many topics does he have to be actively dishonest where you have to start questioning his insights everywhere. I think the answer to that, based on my recollections of a number of other topics, is that his insights are useful on non-controversial topics where such insights are not subject to being skewed by his bizarre political views. > [@Miller](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > Stop attacking me. > > Stop posting dishonestly, and people will stop attacking you. You are 100% responsible for the treatment you get here. He’s responsible to a large degree, but it’s not 100%. **Sam** is not responsible for the level of rancor that sometimes surfaces in this ongoing demonstration of mob psychology. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > What **Kimstu** posted recently about the way Sam posts is relevant here: I went back to the original posts and I have to agree. I gave **Sam** credit for coming around on climate science, but what he posted just two months ago is complete bullshit. He’s basically implying that science in general is unreliable these days, especially when it’s “political”, and therefore climate science especially can’t be trusted because everyone in it has an agenda and bucking the consensus would be career-ending. The reality is that climate change deniers have carved out quite lucrative careers for themselves outside of the scientific mainstream, and the reason they get slammed by real scientists for the crap they publish (usually in low-quality journals if they get published at all) is because their work is provably, clearly, blatantly wrong, often almost unbelievably bad. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1040 "2023-09-20T00:46:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > His habit of not reading (at best) or out-right lying about (at worst) the contents of his cites gives me no confidence in his answers on literally any other subject. I don’t know a ton about astrophotography. I don’t know that anything in that post you just quoted is _necessarily_ incorrect, but based on his posting history, I’m absolutely not going to trust anything in it. Here’s a lovely image of Globular cluster M92, shot from my backyard in the city: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/gqw6Va4.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/gqw6Va4) Jupiter and Europa: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/f9pPN05.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/f9pPN05) Spiral galaxy Messier M-51: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/uZs5yZU.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/uZs5yZU) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=53)